Economy Right wing economic theory BTFO again.

[MoparOrNoCar]

Democrats in the midst of tanking the economy while talking about how terrible Republican economics are?

Yeah not good timing on that one folks.

 

[HereticBD]

From new big money. The economy will always create new millionaires and new billionaires. It has done so forever and will continue to do so. It's the great myth that poor people keep buying into - that the rich is a finite resource created by the existing rich in isolation. The reality is that we have an economic system that has always created mega-rich people.

Yeah, and what are the wages in that system like? Is that somehow irrelevant to the system that has created so many rich people?

If all of our mega-rich moved to the Cayman Islands, it wouldn't matter in the long run.

Define "long run".

 

[nostradumbass]

Well comprehension and nuance is definitely something you've shown yourself to be lacking across multiple threads in the WR.
You're forgiven

Lol, it's my goal in life to be taken seriously by a guy called "no fat chicks" on a karate forum making threads screeching about capitalism. You're a walking caricature.

 

[Jack V Savage]

"Right wing economic theory" is called capitalism, and it's lifted the most people out of poverty of any economic system, and has had the longest streak of success of every system ever created.

Right-wing economic theory is not actually called capitalism. The empirical revolution in economics brought on by the recipients of the Nobel Prize this year has increasingly moved our understanding to the left, as a lot of beliefs about capitalism that had become popular in the '70s turned out to be false. We know now, for example, that real-world MW increases generally don't have a negative impact on employment, that regressive tax cuts don't boost growth noticeably (and that the idea that they boost growth so much that they're self-financing is equivalent to flat Earthism), that some regs enhance growth, etc.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Democrats in the midst of tanking the economy while talking about how terrible Republican economics are?

Yeah not good timing on that one folks.

The economic isn't tanking, genius. GDP growth this year will be the strongest we've seen in decades, and it'll be very strong next year at least, too.

 

[panamaican]

Yeah, and what are the wages in that system like? Is that somehow irrelevant to the system that has created so many rich people?

This question doesn't make sense. What are the wages like? Is that asking if they're high, low, etc? Is it a relative question or an absolute one? Is it a question of if they resemble some other model or is it about the method by which they're administered. Because the "wages" cover a pretty broad spectrum. Too broad to be "like" anything without a more specific question.

Of course wages are relevant to the system.

Define "long run".

Let's call it 7-10 years.

 

[Aegon Spengler]

Honest question. Do you deal with illegals daily? Are your trash cans tagged with MS13 graffiti?

Have you been robbed by illegals?

Repealing NAFTA and allowing Mexico to protect their agricultural industry with tariffs would go a long way to reducing illegal immigration. Call your local republican and suggest it, see what they say.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Wages are about leverage and you need to have a government that is willing to introduce tariffs as leverage against business. For some reason the idea of a tariff has become the equivalent of satan-worship to folks who report the news. You can't use them too much or too often but they have their place.

The reason people don't support tariffs generally is that they help a few favored businesses at the expense of lower wages, higher unemployment, lower consumer options. The tradeoffs are not good for a developed nation.

 

[Striderxdj]

The economic isn't tanking, genius. GDP growth this year will be the strongest we've seen in decades, and it'll be very strong next year at least, too.

But Jack, the price of gas is slightly higher than normal and its certainly not related to normal summer price increases, opec cutting production and pandemic related transportation shortages... its because of some nebulous super liberal polices Biden implemented that immediately affected the entire world economy...

 

[Jack V Savage]

But Jack, the price of gas is slightly higher than normal and its certainly not related to normal summer price increases, opec cutting production and pandemic related transportation shortages... its because of some nebulous super liberal polices Biden implemented that immediately affected the entire world economy...

I think even that's giving too much credit. I think it's just that the wrong party is in the WH, therefore the rightist media is going to present the economy as being bad, and consumers of that media will buy it.

 

[Rational Poster]

Hows that gasoline price working out for ya?

Joe Biden is saving ExxonMobil from complete mismanagement.

*Look over here at the shiny object*

(Gasoline prices peaked higher in 2018/2019 than it is currently)

 

[HereticBD]

Let's call it 7-10 years.

Okay, well I'm certainly interested in your theory in how if all the wealth was taken out of the economy in one fell swoop, how the economy would stabilize in a mere 7-10 years. Enlighten me.

 

[panamaican]

Okay, well I'm certainly interested in your theory in how if all the wealth was taken out of the economy in one fell swoop, how the economy would stabilize in a mere 7-10 years. Enlighten me.

I have no theory on that because it's impossible. I said if the rich moved to the Cayman Islands. They can't move the wealth.

The wealth is tied up in the infrastructure (facilities, equipment, etc.), the customer base, the knowledge centers (the people who perform the daily operations of the businesses), etc. Those things don't move as easily as the mega-wealthy at the top of the hierarchy.

Moreover, so long as they're American citizens, they're subject to our taxes. If they give up U.S. citizenship, the wealth earned in the U.S. is still taxed. To move it out of the U.S. would require a bunch of financial transactions and restructuring that would frequently be hit with one time taxes. And once those things and people are outside of the nation's economic system, they've also cut themselves off from the very thing that generated the wealth in the first place. Someone else will step up and take their place.

But to return to the post - the ease with which wealthy people live outside of the country should not be confused with the difficulty of permanently removing their assets from the country. Especially when so much of it is illiquid.

 

[chrisdiaz]

I remember when minimum wage jobs werent supposed to pay as much as an entry level IT position...People never think about the business owners in these situations. Like some small town diner in rural america is going to be able to afford 15 dollars an hour...The thought is just ridiculous and would lead to even more corporations taking out small business. Let the states set their wages and rules. The states that are dumb like CA get to watch the multi billion dollar corps like Toyota and Tesla flee to TX.

 

[panamaican]

I remember when minimum wage jobs werent supposed to pay as much as an entry level IT position...People never think about the business owners in these situations. Like some small town diner in rural america is going to be able to afford 15 dollars an hour...The thought is just ridiculous and would lead to even more corporations taking out small business. Let the states set their wages and rules. The states that are dumb like CA get to watch the multi billion dollar corps like Toyota and Tesla flee to TX.

Is that a problem with the minimum wage or a problem with the declining rate for the entry level IT position?

Because I would say that requiring people on minimum wage to make substandard wages in order to justify the IT position dropping in value doesn't make sense. It's pushing blame in the wrong direction. It means that the minimum wage worker is blamed for wanting a decent salary but leaves the IT employer off the hook for not increasing his wages accordingly.

Or to put it another way - just because the IT worker has decided to take pennies on the dollar doesn't mean the minimum wage worker has to suffer for it.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

The study done in the 80's? Is there an update to it -- none of it is really covered in the article.

 

[chrisdiaz]

Is that a problem with the minimum wage or a problem with the declining rate for the entry level IT position?

Because I would say that requiring people on minimum wage to make substandard wages in order to justify the IT position dropping in value doesn't make sense. It's pushing blame in the wrong direction. It means that the minimum wage worker is blamed for wanting a decent salary but leaves the IT employer off the hook for not increasing his wages accordingly.

Or to put it another way - just because the IT worker has decided to take pennies on the dollar doesn't mean the minimum wage worker has to suffer for it.

Its a problem with a national minimum wage. Let the states decide like I said. Your not supposed to be able to have a mortgage and a car payment in an entry level position that takes no skills. People think you are for some reason.

 

[Jack V Savage]

The study done in the 80's? Is there an update to it -- none of it is really covered in the article.

The award isn't for the particular finding; it's for basically initiating evidence-based economics, which revolutionized the field. Lots of people have studied the issue since, though (and their findings have held up--now pretty much conventional wisdom).

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

The award isn't for the particular finding; it's for basically initiating evidence-based economics, which revolutionized the field. Lots of people have studied the issue since, though (and their findings have held up--now pretty much conventional wisdom).

Ok, but TS should update the link to include the original study or have a better detailed break down in the OP. I dont even think he read the link he posted.

 

[Striderxdj]

I remember when minimum wage jobs werent supposed to pay as much as an entry level IT position...People never think about the business owners in these situations. Like some small town diner in rural america is going to be able to afford 15 dollars an hour...The thought is just ridiculous and would lead to even more corporations taking out small business. Let the states set their wages and rules. The states that are dumb like CA get to watch the multi billion dollar corps like Toyota and Tesla flee to TX.

This same excuse has been used for years. If these "small town businesses" are on such a knife edge of failure that an increase to payroll will outweigh a slight price increase they could implement and more people eating there, they shouldn't be used as an economic "canary in the coal mine", they're half dead already.