Elections RFK Selected as United States Secretary of Health and Human Services

[PhitePhan]

So the dozens of scientific studies showing no link between vaccines and autism isn’t enough?

Depends on the quality of the study, IMO. What we have in the US are epidemiological studies doing after-the-fact research. These types of studies are always burdened by confounding factors, and thus never appropriate to use when looking for causal associations.

Did you know that senior researcher on a major CDC study claiming no vaccine/autism association claimed that damning study data was thrown out AFTER an association between vaccine/autism was found?

Did you know that a government expert doctor who was supposed to testify about no vaccine/autism link reversed course and now says that there IS an association with some kids?

Also, there ARE studies that indicate an association between vaccination and autism (not that they don’t also have flaws) and the then head of CDC also conceded an association between vaccination and autism like illness (vaccine court has paid these cases out as well).

The whole “vaccines don’t cause autism and you’re a loon for being concerned” tact is not working, and people are right to ask questions and demand answers.

 

[Sano]

Depends on the quality of the study, IMO. What we have in the US are epidemiological studies doing after-the-fact research. These types of studies are always burdened by confounding factors, and thus never appropriate to use when looking for causal associations.

Did you know that senior researcher on a major CDC study claiming no vaccine/autism association claimed that damning study data was thrown out AFTER an association between vaccine/autism was found?

Did you know that a government expert doctor who was supposed to testify about no vaccine/autism link reversed course and now says that there IS an association with some kids?

Also, there ARE studies that indicate an association between vaccination and autism (not that they don’t also have flaws) and the then head of CDC also conceded an association between vaccination and autism like illness (vaccine court has paid these cases out as well).

The whole “vaccines don’t cause autism and you’re a loon for being concerned” tact is not working, and people are right to ask questions and demand answers.

The claim that epidemiological studies can't tell us anything is simply not true. They can't tell us anything definitive about causality, although they can infer it especially if other parameters like dose-response and large effect sizes are consistent, but what they can tell us about is incidence and associations. If vaccines caused autism to a non-negligent extent, you would be able to see a difference in autism rates in children vaccinated vs non-vaccinated especially when you are looking and decades of data and whole populations. That isn't the case. This has been extensively studied at this point and not just by the CDC, but by unaffiliated scientists and autism foundations across the globe.

I could post a lot of high quality meta analysis and reviews, but instead I'll post this from Cochraine which is probably the most 'by the book', unbiased and possibly respected review board in the world. Their review looked at 138 randomised and non-randomised studies conducted on the efficacy and safety of MMR, MMRV and MMR+V vaccines.

Their summary report is here:

Cochrane Review confirms effectiveness of MMR vaccines​

In relation to the controversy arising from false claims linking vaccination and autism, the review summarises evidence from two studies with 1,194,764 children. Diagnosed cases of autism were similar in vaccinated and unvaccinated children.

Cochrane Review confirms effectiveness of MMR vaccines

New evidence published in the Cochrane Library finds MMR, MMRV and MMR+V vaccines are effective and that they aren't associated with increased risk of autism

www.cochrane.org

And full review is here:

Vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, and varicella in children​

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD004407.pub4/full

We don't know anything for certain in this world, but there is no evidence that trumps this right here and no scientific reason to believe that vaccines cause autism.

 

[Sinister]

Slight oversight on the does/do thing, I hope you can forgive me.

Yes, the US has seen a decline in some important health outcomes in the last few decades. Parsing out why that is by looking health data is the whole point. The main issue is that Americans don't follow the dietary and exercise guidelines, partly because they are set up to fail by the infrastructure. RFK doesn't understand the basics of any of that and often spouts factually incorrect and inane things. I don't think someone like that is qualified to improve healthcare.

Other countries have way more success and don't struggle with the same poor health outcomes. Fun fact, it doesn't have anything to do with 'seed oils'.

The Department of Transportation could do wonders for the health of Americans by getting us not having to drive cars as much. Since you mentioned other Countries. Made me think of how many places bike and walk FAR more than we do on average.

 

[Sano]

The Department of Transportation could do wonders for the health of Americans by getting us not having to drive cars as much. Since you mentioned other Countries. Made me think of how many places bike and walk FAR more than we do on average.

That is how it is here in Denmark. We practically bike everywhere because our roads were built with bikes in mind and we're encouraged to do so.

 

[Sinister]

That is how it is here in Denmark. We practically bike everywhere because our roads were built with bikes in mind and we're encouraged to do so.

You Scandinavians and your logical approaches

 

[Cajun]

So the dozens of scientific studies showing no link between vaccines and autism isn’t enough?

Agreed.

 

[Sano]

You Scandinavians and your logical approaches

I honestly feel like I have less and less in common with the majority of posters on this forum. Started with the exodus of left leaning posters a few years back, then recently most of the remaining ones I thought were sensible and smart turned out to be atrocious as evident by their support of the slaughter in Gaza. I feel like humanism and logic has gone out the window.

 

[Sinister]

I honestly feel like I have less and less in common with the majority of posters on this forum. Started with the exodus of left leaning posters a few years back, then recently most of the remaining ones I thought were sensible and smart turned out to be atrocious as evident by their support of the slaughter in Gaza. I feel like humanism and logic has gone out the window.

I feel you. Some of us arent giving up the fight, though. And that's saying a lot coming from the US right now

 

[Sano]

I feel you. Some of us arent giving up the fight, though. And that's saying a lot coming from the US right now

I honestly feel bad for you because wow, what a shitshow. At least maybe there will be some sort of catharsis now that Trump and Co. control the House, Senate, Presidency and SCOTUS. But, considering how the American public seem to vote against their own interests, don't care about policies and revel in idolatry, I have my doubts. Guess we'll see. At the end of the day things will probably be alright either way, wish you the best man.

 

[Renard]

The Department of Transportation could do wonders for the health of Americans by getting us not having to drive cars as much. Since you mentioned other Countries. Made me think of how many places bike and walk FAR more than we do on average.

You'd have to overhaul the entire urban architecture. Fun fact, lack of walking is probably a big part of North Americans being fat. Some research suggests that exercising makes you hungrier but movement (NEAT) does not. Meaning if someone walks to work every day they're burning calories but not necessarily feeling hungrier at lunch. However if you had the typical 'Murkan lifestyle of sitting on your ass all day, driving everywhere, and then pulling up to the gym and doing some sets, you're burning some calories but paying for it with extra hunger and it's not really compensating for the poor baseline NEAT. Although the actual typical person isn't even doing that last step (the gym) so it's bad all around.

 

[lsa]

I honestly feel bad for you because wow, what a shitshow. At least maybe there will be some sort of catharsis now that Trump and Co. control the House, Senate, Presidency and SCOTUS. But, considering how the American public seem to vote against their own interests, don't care about policies and revel in idolatry, I have my doubts. Guess we'll see. At the end of the day things will probably be alright either way, wish you the best man.

 

[Sano]

I almost, ALMOST, reacted to that post with a sad smiley but on principle I will never use anything but a like.

Here you go

 

[fedorthegoat777]

 

[PEB]

Let's hope this is not our

Let's hope this is not our future again. AI generated.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

- I thought vacines increased life expectation. If you guys donttake the Basic vax. How the hell are you going to travel to other contries? First is a relevância, you have to prove you got certinho vai. A place like Brazil, with our climate is a deadly traz to unvacined people. And can your soldiers deploy without taking the Basic vax?

A guy would only have to sneeze on a unvaxed soldier

 

[PhitePhan]

Slight oversight on the does/do thing, I hope you can forgive me.

Yes, the US has seen a decline in some important health outcomes in the last few decades. Parsing out why that is by looking at health data is the whole point. The main issue is that Americans don't follow the dietary and exercise guidelines, partly because they are set up to fail by the infrastructure. RFK doesn't understand the basics of any of that and often spouts factually incorrect and inane things. I don't think someone like that is qualified to improve healthcare.

Other countries have way more success and don't struggle with the same poor health outcomes. Fun fact, it doesn't have anything to do with 'seed oils'.

Not a lot of disagreement from me here, more so confusion about your ire directed at people who were in no way responsible for the health problems plaguing our country while tacitly (and explicitly) aligning with those who created the mess we’re in currently.

The claim that epidemiological studies can't tell us anything is simply not true. They can't tell us anything definitive about causality, although they can infer it especially if other parameters like dose-response and large effect sizes are consistent, but what they can tell us about is incidence and associations. If vaccines caused autism to a non-negligent extent, you would be able to see a difference in autism rates in children vaccinated vs non-vaccinated especially when you are looking and decades of data and whole populations. That isn't the case. This has been extensively studied at this point and not just by the CDC, but by unaffiliated scientists and autism foundations across the globe.

Epidemiology has its place, I agree. That said, it is a poor and inappropriate replacement for randomized placebo control studies, particularly when trying to tease out vaccine adverse events. So what we have are health authorities who didn’t conduct the right studies before introducing a medical intervention to the entire population. Then, only when outsiders raise concerns do they look into the issue using subpar methods.

I could post a lot of high quality meta analysis and reviews, but instead I'll post this from Cochraine which is probably the most 'by the book', unbiased and possibly respected review board in the world. Their review looked at 138 randomised and non-randomised studies conducted on the efficacy and safety of MMR, MMRV and MMR+V vaccines.

Their summary report is here:

Cochrane Review confirms effectiveness of MMR vaccines​

In relation to the controversy arising from false claims linking vaccination and autism, the review summarises evidence from two studies with 1,194,764 children. Diagnosed cases of autism were similar in vaccinated and unvaccinated children.

Cochrane Review confirms effectiveness of MMR vaccines

New evidence published in the Cochrane Library finds MMR, MMRV and MMR+V vaccines are effective and that they aren't associated with increased risk of autism

www.cochrane.org

And full review is here:

Vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, and varicella in children​

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD004407.pub4/full

We don't know anything for certain in this world, but there is no evidence that trumps this right here and no scientific reason to believe that vaccines cause autism.

I’m very familiar with this study and their previous review. You’ll notice that Cochrane didn’t explicitly rate the quality of evidence regarding safety research in the summary you posted, and that’s becuse the majority of safety research studies are subpar (you will be hard pressed to find even one high quality MMR safety study in the Cochrane review).

A previous Cochrane review from 2012 (conducted after several high profile autism/vaccine studies were already published) noted poor study quality more explicitly:

“Authors' conclusions: The design and reporting of safety outcomes in MMR vaccine studies, both pre- and post-marketing, are largely inadequate.”

Vaccines for measles, mumps and rubella in children - PubMed

The design and reporting of safety outcomes in MMR vaccine studies, both pre- and post-marketing, are largely inadequate. The evidence of adverse events following immunisation with the MMR vaccine cannot be separated from its role in preventing the target diseases.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[PBAC]

Omg the American presidency is sherdog

 

[LeonardoBjj]

Slight oversight on the does/do thing, I hope you can forgive me.

Yes, the US has seen a decline in some important health outcomes in the last few decades. Parsing out why that is by looking at health data is the whole point. The main issue is that Americans don't follow the dietary and exercise guidelines, partly because they are set up to fail by the infrastructure. RFK doesn't understand the basics of any of that and often spouts factually incorrect and inane things. I don't think someone like that is qualified to improve healthcare.

Other countries have way more success and don't struggle with the same poor health outcomes. Fun fact, it doesn't have anything to do with 'seed oils'.

- The absurd working hours they have in america, lack of working regulations protecting them. Certainly contributes for the bad health. How the hell ia someone that works 80 hours a week, find time to exercise?

Is this guy going against the bilionaire suplement industry? Several suplements guys have in america, cant be sould here. And isnt because they work, like some people preach. @Sinister can atest that!

 

[LeonardoBjj]

Omg the American presidency is sherdog

- It's a broscience show, but instead of Rich Piana, we got Wes Watson equivalent running the circus.

 

[BudKing8806]

Holy cow the American education system has failed you guys. You cannot address the real issue of obesity and poor health outcomes in the US if you don't understand to diagnose it properly. RFK has no idea what he is talking and neither do anyone in this thread apparently.

And I suppose you do?