Remember 2 years ago when Pavlovich was the guy that Jon Jones was allegedly “ducking” ?

[fica]

Well, since Jones can't fight everyone in every weight division, all at the same time, there will always be somebody or somebodies that he's supposedly ducking.

lol hahaha well he could fight only hw for last 4 years first pavlovic then francis and and now tom nobody is asking him to fight ww or sw or stuff like that but i am 100% he would accept that fight because he has some size issue always pick and choose smaller guys then him to fight most of his carreer and peds on top of that

 

[Tweak896]

Never understood how people ignore Jones best wins, bring up other fights he won that were close, then say he's scared of X fighter who has actually lost fights badly and they completely gloss over any negatives for that fighter.

If Pavlovich caught Aspinall or Aspinall's knee gave out again, we'd be hearing about Pavlovich being an unstoppable monster that scares Jones. And if Jones beat him he would be discarded as a can like Gane.

Except none of that happened and anyone who isn't a spastic knows Tom is a far superior fighter to Pav (and probably Jon at HW too )

It wasn't even that long ago everything attributed to Aspinall was given to Pavlovich.

 

[SuperAlly]

Never understood how people ignore Jones best wins, bring up other fights he won that were close, then say he's scared of X fighter who has actually lost fights badly and they completely gloss over any negatives for that fighter.

If Pavlovich caught Aspinall or Aspinall's knee gave out again, we'd be hearing about Pavlovich being an unstoppable monster that scares Jones. And if Jones beat him he would be discarded as a can like Gane.

It wasn't even that long ago everything attributed to Aspinall was given to Pavlovich.

You are dumb as shit if you think that

 

[650lb Sumo]

TS’s opinion is exactly what Jones is hoping people will say about any guy he didn’t want to risk fighting. If you avoid someone long enough, someone else will beat them for you and you can make the claim you would’ve done the same thing. If you never fought somebody when you had the chance and people were calling for it, you can’t make that claim or take that credit. If jones was so certain he could beat any of the guys he’s ducked, trust me he would’ve fought them.

I mean he could fight Pav now if he wanted. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sergei would accept so fast it would make Jon's head spin.

Something tells me he won't though.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

Well, since Jones can't fight everyone in every weight division, all at the same time, there will always be somebody or somebodies that he's supposedly ducking.

He can't fight everyone in every weight division, but maybe defending against any active fighter instead of picking a retired one would have been a good place to start

It wasn't even that long ago everything attributed to Aspinall was given to Pavlovich.

Funny how being "the top contender" works, huh?

But no, you're still wrong, cuz no one "attributed" Pav with the interim belt. Everyone just  thought he should be next because it was common sense. Everyone  knows Tom should already have fought for the title because that's how interim titles are supposed to work.

 

[Ginja_Ninja]

Never understood how people ignore Jones best wins, bring up other fights he won that were close, then say he's scared of X fighter who has actually lost fights badly and they completely gloss over any negatives for that fighter.

If Pavlovich caught Aspinall or Aspinall's knee gave out again, we'd be hearing about Pavlovich being an unstoppable monster that scares Jones. And if Jones beat him he would be discarded as a can like Gane.

It wasn't even that long ago everything attributed to Aspinall was given to Pavlovich.

This is not just about Aspinall. Its not the name or the fighter, its the challenge. Jones has been teasing a move to heavy weight for over 10 years. There has been lots of "that guy".

It was Pav, before that Francis and yes even Stipe before that. What you are missing is that is doesn't matter who "the guy" was at the time because Jone's has not fought any of them (and no the Stipe fight doesn't count).

He moved up to fight Gane who was also looking great but that was destroyed when we found out that even Francis can wrestle him to a decision. Then fought Stipe 5 years removed. (Both fighters coming off a loss)

When people were asking him to move to heavyweight, it was to go fight the monsters, not the guys we know he can beat and the monsters from 10 years ago.

 

[Tweak896]

You are dumb as shit if you think that

I don't need to think at all, Gane went from going 50/50 with Ngannou to a white belt can after Jones. Even now Pavlovich hype is dead after Aspinall and Volkov. It wasn't too long ago that he was being treated how Aspinall is now.

 

[Tweak896]

This is not just about Aspinall. Its not the name or the fighter, its the challenge. Jones has been teasing a move to heavy weight for over 10 years. There has been lots of "that guy".

It was Pav, before that Francis and yes even Stipe before that. What you are missing is that is doesn't matter who "the guy" was at the time because Jone's has not fought any of them (and no the Stipe fight doesn't count).

He moved up to fight Gane who was also looking great but that was destroyed when we found out that even Francis can wrestle him to a decision. Then fought Stipe 5 years removed. (Both fighters coming off a loss)

When people were asking him to move to heavyweight, it was to go fight the monsters, not the guys we know he can beat and the monsters from 10 years ago.

That's a good point. I'm just noticing the HW division has changed quite a bit lately. I think actually all HWs right now don't have a stone solid resume besides Aspinall, but even he's not proven. His whole career he's defended 2 takedowns in 1 round against Spivac. That's it.

The whole division is in a state where any of them can be "exposed". If Aspinall goes past the 1st round and gasses his cardio could be sus.

The division today is so fragile compared to the golden HW era with UFC vs Pride. Many were well rounded and proven. The division today might all be written off as shallow because guys that size rather get paid in NFL or other sports.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

I don't need to think at all,

That's a problem, isn't it

Gane went from going 50/50 with Ngannou to a white belt can after Jones.

He was a white belt even when going 50/50 with Ngannou. A power striker with a bum knee edged out a technical striker by being slightly less shitty at grappling, and Jon is one of the best MMA wrestlers of all time. Are you an MMA fan who just conveniently forgot what styles are?

Even now Pavlovich hype is dead after Aspinall and Volkov. It wasn't too long ago that he was being treated how Aspinall is now.

Here's the hypocrisy, and I want you to start thinking this time around. Are we talking about their stance as a legitimate threat to Jon, or their standings as a contender in the division? Because the first doesn't fucking matter. It only matters to the Jones fans who think every proposed challenger is just the guy haters want to beat Jon. You're applying that to Pav and to Aspinall, but you're not looking at Gane like that. No, Gane was apparently a good win because of his divisional standing despite the fact he was never going to have a thing in store for Jon.

Stylistically
Gane was always going to be one of Jones' easiest high ranking opponents. Even with the fights Pav lost since, and even if Jon would have steamrolled him, he'd still have been a younger challenge than Gane. Even if someone tries to say "Pav's chances of beating Jones were low, so it doesn't matter they didn't fight," Gane's chances were even lower. And no matter what kind of knockout loss streak Tom could end up on, his chances are higher than both. If the question is "Who can actually present a threat to Jon?" and you say "Not Tom," despite the fact he is the current best chance of anyone, then just mentally fast forward to his retirement party.

Divisionally
Jon fought Gane, as he arguably should have, because Gane was the last title challenger and it was a vacant belt. I actually agree with that, even if it was obvious Gane was gonna lose. Good.

Pav was being treated like the next contender because he was the backup for that vacant title, arguably could have been the one picked for it, and because he was the streaking #3 about to fight the streaking #4 the month after in an obvious title eliminator, as the two people above them were off losses. But Jon didn't fight him as he should have. Bad.

People are now calling for Tom because he's the interim champ and that, by default, should make him the next contender. And Jon already avoided getting that unification out of the way and is seemingly uninterested in fighting him next as he should be. Bad.

It's really that simple. Pav deserved the shot, but not nearly as much as Tom, despite your false equivalence. Tom deserves it as much as any title shot can be deserved, and no matter how much anyone believes he stands no chance, he still stands the highest chance out of anyone top ranked on the roster. The choice should have been Pav, but Jon snuck away with a "legacy" fight. Now, the "legacy" option is used and off the table, so the choice is Tom or vacate.

 

[Gamer2k4]

Except Aspinall is the real deal.

At the time Pavlovich was 18-1 and had won his last six fights by first round KO.

The only reason Aspinall is "the real deal" and Pavlovich isn't is because Aspinall hasn't lost recently. As soon as he does, people will be looking for the next great hope to beat Jones.

 

[Bret 'The Hitman' Hart]

I’m not sure if Tom could even beat Ciryl Gane. He might take him down round 1 but if he doesn’t finish he could also gas out and get out pointed by the Frenchmen

You're optimist

 

[Gamer2k4]

Here's the hypocrisy, and I want you to start thinking this time around. Are we talking about their stance as a legitimate threat to Jon, or their standings as a contender in the division? Because the first doesn't fucking matter. It only matters to the Jones fans who think every proposed challenger is just the guy haters want to beat Jon. You're applying that to Pav and to Aspinall, but you're not looking at Gane like that. No, Gane was apparently a good win because of his divisional standing despite the fact he was never going to have a thing in store for Jon.

Stylistically
Gane was always going to be one of Jones' easiest high ranking opponents. Even with the fights Pav lost since, and even if Jon would have steamrolled him, he'd still have been a younger challenge than Gane. Even if someone tries to say "Pav's chances of beating Jones were low, so it doesn't matter they didn't fight," Gane's chances were even lower. And no matter what kind of knockout loss streak Tom could end up on, his chances are higher than both. If the question is "Who can actually present a threat to Jon?" and you say "Not Tom," despite the fact he is the current best chance of anyone, then just mentally fast forward to his retirement party.

Divisionally
Jon fought Gane, as he arguably should have, because Gane was the last title challenger and it was a vacant belt. I actually agree with that, even if it was obvious Gane was gonna lose. Good.

When there was a poll on Sherdog about Gane/Jones before the fight, more respondents thought Gane would win than Jones. It's only "obvious" Gane was going to lose now that we've seen how easily Jones beat him, just as once Aspinall loses it will be "obvious" that he was cherry-picked because he had bad cardio, or because he had suspect knees, or because he had never been on his back, or because he's too green, or any of a number of other excuses people are going to come up with after the fact.

Pav was being treated like the next contender because he was the backup for that vacant title, arguably could have been the one picked for it, and because he was the streaking #3 about to fight the streaking #4 the month after in an obvious title eliminator, as the two people above them were off losses. But Jon didn't fight him as he should have. Bad.

People are now calling for Tom because he's the interim champ and that, by default, should make him the next contender. And Jon already avoided getting that unification out of the way and is seemingly uninterested in fighting him next as he should be. Bad.

It's really that simple. Pav deserved the shot, but not nearly as much as Tom, despite your false equivalence. Tom deserves it as much as any title shot can be deserved, and no matter how much anyone believes he stands no chance, he still stands the highest chance out of anyone top ranked on the roster. The choice should have been Pav, but Jon snuck away with a "legacy" fight. Now, the "legacy" option is used and off the table, so the choice is Tom or vacate.

Pavlovich was being treated like the next contender because Aspinall had lost recently and Pavlovich hadn't. I'm not convinced either of them has anything for Jones.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

When there was a poll on Sherdog about Gane/Jones before the fight, more respondents thought Gane would win than Jones.

When Sherdog gets polled about Flat Earth, the results are more competitive than they should be, but it's still obvious the planet is rounded.

I was in those threads pointing out how Gane was the easiest opponent they could pick for Jon. There is no "in retrospect" there.

It's only "obvious" Gane was going to lose now that we've seen how easily Jones beat him

Again no.

just as once Aspinall loses it will be "obvious" that he was cherry-picked because he had bad cardio, or because he had suspect knees, or because he had never been on his back, or because he's too green, or any of a number of other excuses people are going to come up with after the fact.

And again, no, because like I said in my post, it doesn't matter how people perceive their chances now or later. Gane is only arguably a "cherry pick" in that Pav was a realistic option at the time. Stipe was a "cherry pick" because Pav should have been the option. Right now, Tom is the only option, so even if people retroactively say Tom actually sucked, it still can't be argued to be a cherry pick.

Pavlovich was being treated like the next contender because Aspinall had lost recently and Pavlovich hadn't. I'm not convinced either of them has anything for Jones.

And Pav beat the guy who beat Tom. So yeah, of course he was the next contender. He was being treated as the contender because he was the contender. That's what "not losing" a lot does to fighters, makes them contenders.

We can come back to "Who has something for Jon" over and over despite the fact I very clearly laid out how that doesn't matter, but as long as it doesn't matter, I'll ask you to answer the other thing that I very clearly laid out: What majorly ranked opponent has the  best chance against Jon right now? Even if you couldn't give anyone more than 10% chance, who's the guy with the 10%?

 

[jeff7b9]

Just because you think he sucks now doesn't mean Jones wasn't ducking him them. What kind of paint-huffing logic is this shit?

For real.

Sergei has got knock you the fuck out with one shot power.

He is easily a danger to ANYONE.
Meanwhile Jones is asking for "Deontay Wilder money" or he won't face any actual contenders.
Jones is a joke and a stain on the sport.
Great record, shit human.

 

[ejazahmednit]

The tear Pavlovich was on at the time would definitely make him number 1 contender to the HW title. There were talks of Jones moving to HW at the time if I am not mistaken, so it was not a very unreasonable assumption.
Could Jones beat him, ofcourse, but the way Pavlovich has lost recently has been through sheer power and length

 

[Lee Danger]

Jones' fans need to change approach: "he'd have eventually beaten fighter X and Y" doesn't mean shit if it only happens in their fantasies.

 

[loisestrad]

Jones' fans need to change approach: "he'd have eventually beaten fighter X and Y" doesn't mean shit if it only happens in their fantasies.

It's kinda funny that most of the time it works the other way: Jones would lose to fighter X and Y.

 

[jeff7b9]

It's kinda funny that most of the time it works the other way: Jones would lose to fighter X and Y.

Pretty easy solution

He could just actually fight the legit challenger / interim champ.

 

[Lee Danger]

It's kinda funny that most of the time it works the other way: Jones would lose to fighter X and Y.

Pretty easy solution

He could just actually fight the legit challenger / interim champ.

The Goat of Schrödinger

 

[SuperAlly]

I don't need to think at all,

It is clear to us all that you do not think