'Prometheus' and 'Alien Covenant' explained

[Deleted member 110072]

I think it's that plus the space jockey / man in suit thing is also consistent with the irreverence current filmmakers are showing for the franchises they are joining late in the game. Johnson and Star Wars, Feig and Ghostbusters, Tim Miller and Terminator. The hell with Luke, the hell with Ackbar, the hell with the Space Jockey, the hell with Kyle Reese and John Connor...

I think the fact that it was Ridley Scott himself showing that irreverence felt a bit like betrayal to a lot of people. Ridley, you were the chosen one, you were supposed to bring balance to Alien...

And his attitude was pretty George Lucas. "It's mine and I'll poop on it if I want to."

I do still think with Scott he wasnt really in a Lucas position were he could just do whatever the hell he liked. Covenant espeically I think Fox were clearly calling a lot of the shots and Krutzman to me even though Scott claims he hired him I suspect was someone they wanted as well to bring the Abrams "magic touch".

That is I think a bit of a difference, Lucas whilst you could argue misguided and not that great a director/writter by the time of the prequels there was an effort to do something, he did care about his universe and wanted to make ambitious(for a blockbuster anyway) cinema. The whole kind of Lucas hate culture that grew up I do think bares some responsibility for the Abrams era, youtube "experts" thinking their blockbuster 101 style analysis was the key to quality cinema.

There is a pretty big divide between even what I'd imagine the original idea of Prometheus was and Alien though, the latter again I think is much more Lovecraftian were the basic idea is that faith in progress and knowledge is misplaced. That Space Jockey scene you can see Lambert is kind of having to hide how scared she is because thats not whats expected, Kane's attitude is having faith in exploration and knowledge but Lambert is shown to be correct. Indeed I think its very well done that whilst she's nominally the "cowardly one" really her reaction feels the most honest of anyone.

 

[BisexualMMA]

I do still think with Scott he wasnt really in a Lucas position were he could just do whatever the hell he liked. Covenant espeically I think Fox were clearly calling a lot of the shots and Krutzman to me even though Scott claims he hired him I suspect was someone they wanted as well to bring the Abrams "magic touch".

Yeah I wasn't saying Ridley had the same level of control and freedom. But even if he had less control he seemed to have far more reverence for what he wanted to do at the moment than what had come before. I think he made a point of de-Giger-ing the alien ship, making it far more mechanical and far less biological. Bascally retconning the whole design to work with the new guy in a suit idea. Same with downscaling the size of the space jockey / engineer. More Ridley, less Giger.

He seems to be kind of like Lucas with the specialized editions of the old Star Wars movies. What exists now is the REAL vision. Ridley seems more enamored with Prometheus and Covenant than he is with Alien. Kind of like stubbornness from a guy that doesn't quite have the same touch anymore, like Lucas.

The same goes with torpedoing the Blomkamp Alien movie. Mine, not yours, stay away.

 

[Amerikuracana]

Audience: Your story was poorly written for reasons W, X, Y and Z and here are the scenes and plotholes for reference.

Ridley and Studio: What, you're mad because it didn't have enough of the xenomorph? Okay here we go!

Some of the dumbest shit I’ve ever seen. That’s exactly right.

 

[gravity lead]

I am a big fan of the 'Alien' movie series by director Ridley Scott. Both 'Prometheus' (2012) and 'Alien Covenant' (2017) are part of the series and story. I came across three YouTube videos that explain the later two movies. It is amazing how much information and footage was left out of the original movies. There is so much that is explained about each movie. It was awesome. If you are a fan, you should check it out.

Thanks ts. Great movies will watch

 

[BB in Crazy!!!!]

Cool ideas but execution was eh

This. Tons and tons of potential ruined by bad writing.

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

Yeah I wasn't saying Ridley had the same level of control and freedom. But even if he had less control he seemed to have far more reverence for what he wanted to do at the moment than what had come before. I think he made a point of de-Giger-ing the alien ship, making it far more mechanical and far less biological. Bascally retconning the whole design to work with the new guy in a suit idea. Same with downscaling the size of the space jockey / engineer. More Ridley, less Giger.

He seems to be kind of like Lucas with the specialized editions of the old Star Wars movies. What exists now is the REAL vision. Ridley seems more enamored with Prometheus and Covenant than he is with Alien. Kind of like stubbornness from a guy that doesn't quite have the same touch anymore, like Lucas.

The same goes with torpedoing the Blomkamp Alien movie. Mine, not yours, stay away.

The simple answer is Ridley Scott is an asshole and a hack and it was largely wrong of us to put any faith in him to treat Alien with the reverence it deserves.

Exhibit A: Blade Runner Director’s Cut and Final Cut. All the “Deckard is a replicant” nonsense is shit Scott came up with himself like ten years later on his own. Deckard was never supposed to be a replicant, and it’s a dumb idea. Everyone else associated with the movie, from the screenwriter to the producers to Harrison Ford himself thought it was a fucking idiotic idea which flat out sabotages a major theme of the movie which was that the replicants were capable of demonstrating more humanity than a human. Supposedly Scott got in a fight on the set of 2049 with Denis Villeneuve and Harrison Ford insisting the movie had to make some reference to Deckard being a replicant which nobody wanted to do. But he had a tantrum and power tripped on his producer role so we ended up with that throw away line by Jared Leto’s character about what if Deckard was “designed”.

So any hope of Scott not going full George Lucas with the Alien franchise was misguided. Scott went full George Lucas before Lucas himself did.

 

[kimocomplex]

I really like "Prometheus" and still do. "Alien Covenant" was a bit of a mess, but not without it's qualities. I'll take Ridley Scott messing around with the franchise any day of the week, over some by the numbers bullshit that others have made of this franchise.

Exactly how I feel

 

[Deleted member 110072]

The simple answer is Ridley Scott is an asshole and a hack and it was largely wrong of us to put any faith in him to treat Alien with the reverence it deserves.

Exhibit A: Blade Runner Director’s Cut and Final Cut. All the “Deckard is a replicant” nonsense is shit Scott came up with himself like ten years later on his own. Deckard was never supposed to be a replicant, and it’s a dumb idea. Everyone else associated with the movie, from the screenwriter to the producers to Harrison Ford himself thought it was a fucking idiotic idea which flat out sabotages a major theme of the movie which was that the replicants were capable of demonstrating more humanity than a human. Supposedly Scott got in a fight on the set of 2049 with Denis Villeneuve and Harrison Ford insisting the movie had to make some reference to Deckard being a replicant which nobody wanted to do. But he had a tantrum and power tripped on his producer role so we ended up with that throw away line by Jared Leto’s character about what if Deckard was “designed”.

So any hope of Scott not going full George Lucas with the Alien franchise was misguided. Scott went full George Lucas before Lucas himself did.

Going to disagree with you there, I think the gaff unicorn and dream footage shows you it was always intended.

The problem I think is that people take the reveal as being some kind of "who dun it" twist when it really isnt, you can speculate on how a replicant Deckard ended up in that situation I spose but the film just doesnt give you the info for it to be a mystery to unravel.

Its moreso I think Scott looking to put a cap on the message of the film, you do have one side of the story thats anti slavery of course but I think you also have the replicants as a kind of allegory for post religious humans. Limited lifespans to highlight morality, awar they don't have a "higher purpose" and Batty is very ubermensch even killing his creator. The message being these post religious humans have value and by revealing the protagonist is one turning that back on the audience.

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

Going to disagree with you there, I think the gaff unicorn and dream footage shows you it was always intended.

The problem I think is that people take the reveal as being some kind of "who dun it" twist when it really isnt, you can speculate on how a replicant Deckard ended up in that situation I spose but the film just doesnt give you the info for it to be a mystery to unravel.

Its moreso I think Scott looking to put a cap on the message of the film, you do have one side of the story thats anti slavery of course but I think you also have the replicants as a kind of allegory for post religious humans. Limited lifespans to highlight morality, awar they don't have a "higher purpose" and Batty is very ubermensch even killing in creator. The message being these post religious humans have value and by revealing the protagonist is one turning that back on the audience.

The unicorn footage was from Legend which was filmed three years after Blade Runner. There was no dream sequence in the original cut. He’s just playing the piano staring off into space before he goes to use the image enhancer on the photograph.

 

[HereticBD]

Audience: Your story was poorly written for reasons W, X, Y and Z and here are the scenes and plotholes for reference.

I think that's being apologetic to an audience that mostly complained about there being no aliens in a "Alien" movie. Most complaints were about the lack of xenomorphs and action. The serious folks would break it down of course, but they're a drop in the bucket compared to the masses, who were saying "Shit sucked, bro. There was like one alien in the whole thing. Fucking stupid. Don't waste your money."

Those are the people the studios pay the most attention to. Not the relatively small cluster of people who give a shit about writing, and obsess over plot holes, and whatnot. There's no way Scott retooled his vision for the franchise, without the studio going "Put some goddamn Xenomorphs in the movie. That's what the audience wants, and not your philosophical mumbo jumbo about the creation of life itself. Oh', and work Danny McBride in there somehow. We tried to get you Seth Rogan, but he's too expensive."

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

I think that's being apologetic to an audience that mostly complained about there being no aliens in a "Alien" movie. Most complaints were about the lack of xenomorphs and action. The serious folks would break it down of course, but they're a drop in the bucket compared to the masses, who were saying "Shit sucked, bro. There was like one alien in the whole thing. Fucking stupid. Don't waste your money."

Those are the people the studios pay the most attention to. Not the relatively small cluster of people who give a shit about writing, and obsess over plot holes, and whatnot. There's no way Scott retooled his vision for the franchise, without the studio going "Put some goddamn Xenomorphs in the movie. That's what the audience wants, and not your philosophical mumbo jumbo about the creation of life itself. Oh', and work Danny McBride in there somehow. We tried to get you Seth Rogan, but he's too expensive."

The movies are too smart for dumb people, and too dumb for smart people.

 

[HereticBD]

The movies are too smart for dumb people, and too dumb for smart people.

Pretty much. Both movies are kind of like that, only the dial is cranked in opposite directions. Prometheus was mostly presented as a cerebral flick, but had sprinkles of horror/action schlock, and AC is like the exact opposite. Maybe they'll finally stick the landing if they make a third flick.

 

[MicroBrew]

Prometheus, the movie that gave us the meme :
went to the Prometheus school of running away from things

 

[MicroBrew]

The movies are too smart for dumb people, and too dumb for smart people.

A lot of TV programming and movies intentionally dumb things down, Discovery and History channel are notorious for this.

I do not believe the general audience is dumb, it is just compensation for a script that is lacking , lack of decent content and appealing to the lowest of low hanging fruit.

 

[WhiskyJack]

No movie should require a video explaining the end to make sense.

Someone has obviously never seen Primer.

Not only do you need videos for it to make sense. You need charts and graphs too.

 

[minute bull]

The simple answer is Ridley Scott is an asshole and a hack and it was largely wrong of us to put any faith in him to treat Alien with the reverence it deserves.

Exhibit A: Blade Runner Director’s Cut and Final Cut. All the “Deckard is a replicant” nonsense is shit Scott came up with himself like ten years later on his own. Deckard was never supposed to be a replicant, and it’s a dumb idea. Everyone else associated with the movie, from the screenwriter to the producers to Harrison Ford himself thought it was a fucking idiotic idea which flat out sabotages a major theme of the movie which was that the replicants were capable of demonstrating more humanity than a human. Supposedly Scott got in a fight on the set of 2049 with Denis Villeneuve and Harrison Ford insisting the movie had to make some reference to Deckard being a replicant which nobody wanted to do. But he had a tantrum and power tripped on his producer role so we ended up with that throw away line by Jared Leto’s character about what if Deckard was “designed”.

So any hope of Scott not going full George Lucas with the Alien franchise was misguided. Scott went full George Lucas before Lucas himself did.

 

[San Marino]

 

[Deleted member 110072]

The unicorn footage was from Legend which was filmed three years after Blade Runner. There was no dream sequence in the original cut. He’s just playing the piano staring off into space before he goes to use the image enhancer on the photograph.

The original cut was re edited(and had the narration recorded) by studio mandate though, Scotts original cut did have the dream sequence in it was was filmed for Blade Runner even if he might have had half an eye on it as a test run for Legend which he'd been developing for years before that.

It was in the cinema release of the directors cut which Scott actually had nothing to do with putting out(he put together the slightly different directors cut that ended up on VHS/DVD), it was just an original edit someone got hold of for a cinema release in the early 90's.

Added to that as well Legend wasnt even the same studio, there not going to just casually allow footage shot for their film to be edited into another studios film.

 

[Adamant]

Prometheus and Covenant are nothing more than shitty fan fiction. They are arguably worse than 3 and Resurrection.

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

Prometheus and Covenant are nothing more than shitty fan fiction. They are arguably worse than 3 and Resurrection.

What’s arguable about it? They’re far worse than 3 and Resurrection