Prime Rumble vs Jiri: Who wins?

[ferrisjso]

Jiri cause Rumble has a HW gas tank and is smaller. Rumble basically needed to win in round 1 or he was toast. I'm surprised so many people are picking Rumble feel they might be disenchanted by Jiri?

One positive thing about Jiri you can take from the Glover fight is he can go 5 rounds. Which is a very important skill for a champ to have.

 

[10000yearsold]

jiri beat a guy that AJ beat years ago. the LHW div is the weakest its been in years. AJ was supposed to fight JJ but we all know what happened.

jiri almost lost to old man glover but AJ had him out in seconds.

Volkan is Rumble's successor. He probably has better fight IQ and maybe a shaving less in knock-out power within the first 3 mins. If Rumble could have held any belts he would have. JJ would have destroyed him.

 

[10000yearsold]

Boy, I don’t know about this. Glover was a rightful champion, but this easily could have been a curtain jerker matchup if Jones hadn’t vacated. If you believe Jiri is better that’s fine, but if Rumble’s title shots had been against Glover instead of Cormier he’d have a belt at home too.

It's the timing of the matter. These fighters performances aren't copy paste-able. If Rumble is still the better fighter than Glover why is he in Florida talking to Bellator about Yoel Romero? The Glover that lost to Rumble is not the same fighter that beat Jan for the title or went to war with Jiri this weekend. Rumble would not have liked to fight this Glover.

And saying this is a co-main to the career highlights of one of the greatest mma fighters to ever live in Jones is really not making the remarkable point you think it is. This is the beginning of the next story.

 

[mkt]

There's a reason why fighters like Rumble who only have one thing never become champion like Jiri just did.

.

There are two reasons Rumble didn't become champ: Cormier and Jones (though he never fought Rumble). Rumble's prime was also a time when the two best LHWs ever were in the division. If you don't believe prime Rumble could be champ pre-Jones or after Jones/Cormier both left, you have some serious holes in your thinking. Plenty of guys who were mostly good at "one thing" have been a champ. And Rumble was not only a great striker, but also had good enough TDD to stop a prime Phil Davis from using his wrestling. That's more than one thing.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

But those "one dimensional wrestlers" are still top today even though they are clearly past their primes. Not going to start nit picking their flaws in their game to say they are not good like you are implying, I'm just looking at the facts. Davis and Bader are dominating the Bellator division and would be ranked now in the UFC in similar positions than back then even though it's obvious that they are not as good as they once were. Glover and Jan are 42 and 40 and yet they are top 3 on the division. Back then, they weren't even top 5 and were 35 and 33 years old.

Even if you take DC and Jones, that era was still stronger than todays era. Because the top guys of today were not top 5 then and were in their primes. Now they are all 40 and still top 5. Literally most of the same guys but in their prime. That tells you how weak this era is compared to that one.

First, Bader and Davis are not “dominating,” they have been where they’ve always been — middle of the pack light heavyweights (if you consider the best 10 or 20 guys the “pack”) and now they ate in the process of falling off completely. I certainly do not think that Bader and Davis would be ranked mid-top ten in the UFC like they used to be. Guys like Rakic, Ankalaev, Jan, and Hill would blow their doors off. They might—might—be competitive with Volkan, Smith, Santos, etc.

Ultimately this isn’t really the point though. The question is how the makeup of the division informs what we think about Rumble and Jiri.

Jiri has proven good enough to beat Volkan, Reyes and Glover.

Rumble proved good enough to beat Gus, Bader, Davis, Rog Nog, Manuwa and Glover.

Rumble twice failed to defeat DC but based on the eye test this weekend I’m comfortable saying that Jiri would be heavily favored to lose to that version of DC too, likely in similar fashion. So I think we can ignore those losses.

Rumble had the larger body of work (so far) but the caliber of opponent was pretty similar. If Jiri added Santos, Smith and Craig (which he’d be favored to do) they’d have very similar records, with Gus being the possible outlier. Personally I rate Gus at his best slightly higher than Reyes but they’re in the same universe.

Ultimately I maintain that what is elevating Rumble is that he was around at the same time as Jones and Cormier. Those guys being 1 and 2 is what made the division seem loaded, not Phil Davis sitting at 6.

Put Jones and Cormier in the current division…

1. Jones
2. Cormier
3. Jiri
4. Glover
5. Jan
6. Rakic
7. Ankalaev
8. Reyes
9. Volkan
10. Craig
11. Hill
12. Smith

….and everyone would think it was loaded, and all the guys in it would get the rub.

That’s the only point I’m looking to make.

 

[mkt]

It's the timing of the matter. These fighters performances aren't copy paste-able. If Rumble is still the better fighter than Glover why is he in Florida talking to Bellator about Yoel Romero? The Glover that lost to Rumble is not the same fighter that beat Jan for the title or went to war with Jiri this weekend. Rumble would not have liked to fight this Glover.

And saying this is a co-main to the career highlights of one of the greatest mma fighters to ever live in Jones is really not making the remarkable point you think it is. This is the beginning of the next story.

This is almost to ridiculous to respond to, but briefly: Rumble is now 38 and has had some serious health issues. Have you seen recent pictures of him? His decision to leave the UFC in his prime wasn't a good one, but to say the current Rumble is hiding in Bellator is beyod dumb. This whole discussion is about prime Rumble. And prime Rumble would KO a 42-year old Glover (much slower and more plodding than he was 5-7 years ago) even faster than he did a younger Glover.

 

[pankrat]

For some reason, the repeteadly domestic abuser Johnson doesnt get any hate in these boards

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

It's the timing of the matter. These fighters performances aren't copy paste-able. If Rumble is still the better fighter than Glover why is he in Florida talking to Bellator about Yoel Romero? The Glover that lost to Rumble is not the same fighter that beat Jan for the title or went to war with Jiri this weekend. Rumble would not have liked to fight this Glover.

And saying this is a co-main to the career highlights of one of the greatest mma fighters to ever live in Jones is really not making the remarkable point you think it is. This is the beginning of the next story.

I’m not attempting to make a remarkable point, I’m pushing back on the distinction you were drawing between Jiri and Rumble — which was that one had what it took to be a champion and one did not. Rumble was never a champion because he fought at the same time as the two best LHW of all time. Jiri is currently a champion because he did not. It’s that simple.

As for whether prime Rumble would be worried about the current version of Glover, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Deleted member 504083]

Jiri cause Rumble has a HW gas tank and is smaller. Rumble basically needed to win in round 1 or he was toast. I'm surprised so many people are picking Rumble feel they might be disenchanted by Jiri?

One positive thing about Jiri you can take from the Glover fight is he can go 5 rounds. Which is a very important skill for a champ to have.

I take it you missed when he fought Phil Davis, Arlovski, Hardy and Branch where his cardio looked great start to finish?

 

[10000yearsold]

There are two reasons Rumble didn't become champ: Cormier and Jones (though he never fought Rumble). Rumble's prime was also a time when the two best LHWs ever were in the division. If you don't believe prime Rumble could be champ pre-Jones or after Jones/Cormier both left, you have some serious holes in your thinking. Plenty of guys who were mostly good at "one thing" have been a champ. And Rumble was not only a great striker, but also had good enough TDD to stop a prime Phil Davis from using his wrestling. That's more than one thing.

TDD is not more than one thing in terms of ways to win a fight, dorkus. I'm glad you like Rumble. I have no stake in taking that away from you, even if I could. He is no where near where Jiri is though and this will perhaps take some time to reveal for you.

 

[pankrat]

First, Bader and Davis are not “dominating,” they have been where they’ve always been — middle of the pack light heavyweights (if you consider the best 10 or 20 guys the “pack”) and now they ate in the process of falling off completely. I certainly do not think that Bader and Davis would be ranked mid-top ten in the UFC like they used to be. Guys like Rakic, Ankalaev, Jan, and Hill would blow their doors off. They might—might—be competitive with Volkan, Smith, Santos, etc.

Ultimately this isn’t really the point though. The question is how the makeup of the division informs what we think about Rumble and Jiri.

Jiri has proven good enough to beat Volkan, Reyes and Glover.

Rumble proved good enough to beat Gus, Bader, Davis, Rog Nog, Manuwa and Glover.

Rumble twice failed to defeat DC but based on the eye test this weekend I’m comfortable saying that Jiri would be heavily favored to lose to that version of DC too, likely in similar fashion. So I think we can ignore those losses.

Rumble had the larger body of work (so far) but the caliber of opponent was pretty similar. If Jiri added Santos, Smith and Craig (which he’d be favored to do) they’d have very similar records, with Gus being the possible outlier. Personally I rate Gus at his best slightly higher than Reyes but they’re in the same universe.

Ultimately I maintain that what is elevating Rumble is that he was around at the same time as Jones and Cormier. Those guys being 1 and 2 is what made the division seem loaded, not Phil Davis sitting at 6.

Put Jones and Cormier in the current division…

1. Jones
2. Cormier
3. Jiri
4. Glover
5. Jan
6. Rakic
7. Ankalaev
8. Reyes
9. Volkan
10. Craig
11. Hill
12. Smith

….and everyone would think it was loaded, and all the guys in it would get the rub.

That’s the only point I’m looking to make.

Cool story but back in real life, Phil Davis mops the floor with Glover, let alone Hill LOL.
Hill!!! lol
Holly shit with the bias. Hope you are not so easy to manipulate when it comes to elections.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Jiri via Jiriness but if Rumble via Rumbleness happened I wouldn’t be surprised.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

For some reason, the repeteadly domestic abuser Johnson doesnt get any hate in these boards

Standard sherdog racism. (Oh wait, I got it entirely backwards, better put that back in my pocket for the next time someone doesn’t like Woodley.)

In all seriousness, this is a thread about hypothetical matchups in the octagon. If you want to make a statement that guys like Hardy and Rumble are the subject of seriously troubling allegations, I won’t disagree with it. But it’s not something I’m particularly keen to invest time talking about. And I’m guessing most other posters feel that way too.

 

[StreetJudas]

Jiri would eat all rumbles shots

 

[Be the ball]

Rumble is the most overrated fighter ever lol

Go watch rumble "try" to ko Arlovski for 3 rounds lol. Watch rumble headbutt Gus super hard, then pretend it didn't happen and go for the finish.

Not impressed.

 

[J0rdan890]

Rumble would blast his head off

 

[pankrat]

Standard sherdog racism. (Oh wait, I got it entirely backwards, better put that back in my pocket for the next time someone doesn’t like Woodley.)

In all seriousness, this is a thread about hypothetical matchups in the octagon. If you want to make a statement that guys like Hardy and Rumble are the subject of seriously troubling allegations, I won’t disagree with it. But it’s not something I’m particularly keen to invest time talking about. And I’m guessing most other posters feel that way too.

Yeah, I just saw the news about Johnson recently for some reason. I was surprised.

Its simply that I had never read any reference to it in sherdog, or anybody shitting on Rumble for it as I saw about others with similar charges. For example with the Hardy case you mention, I read plenty of people hating on him or referencing it, but never with Rumble.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Cool story but back in real life, Phil Davis mops the floor with Glover, let alone Hill LOL.
Hill!!! lol
Holly shit with the bias. Hope you are not so easy to manipulate when it comes to elections.

We can go back and forth saying who would beat who with ease if you want but it’s going to be a pretty fruitless conversation.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Yeah, I just saw the news about Johnson recently for some reason. I was surprised.

Its simply that I had never read any reference to it in sherdog, or anybody shitting on Rumble for it as I saw about others with similar charges. For example with the Hardy case you mention, I read plenty of people hating on him or referencing it, but never with Rumble.

The Hardy thing IMO makes sense because he wifebeat his way out of the NFL and then tried to reinvent himself in the UFC. His background basically WAS the story. Rumble was (mostly) part of MMA’s past when this came out. Would be interesting how much traction it would get if he was active in the UFC and Dana was being asked about it at press conferences.

 

[pankrat]

We can go back and forth saying who would beat who with ease if you want but it’s going to be a pretty fruitless conversation.

Cool but assuming Hill or Jan would "blow Davis/Bader doors off" is completely baseless, man. Like wtf. I mean you can spit it but its like an extremely weak/lazy/baseless/random point to make, even by sherdog standards