People in the know re: BJJ honest question (Jacare, Roger, Maia)

If you actually follow all of their BJJ careers, you wouldn't say that. The difference is enough that I would say Roger not only beats, but submits Maia 9/10, and still beats him that 10th time, just on points. And yes, Maia has beaten Jacare, but if you knew the circumstances around that fight and all the others that they've had, as well as their records against common opponents and overall tournament results, you'd see that Jacare is a level above Maia. Remember, Hughes and Serra have beaten GSP as well, are they all on the same level?

do you realize what "levels" are?

they are on the same level. one might be slightly better than other, but they are on the same level. bringing up serra and hughes to GSP is absolutely retarded. I don't even want to go there with you. you serious? LOL.

when hughes beat GSP he was better than him....at that time. GSP just got 10x better. and the Serra fight..I don't even know where to begin to talk about your logic.

anyway, maia/jacare/roger are all on the same level. if you disagree you need to look up the word level.
 
Yeah that's not how it works.

If there's no tap (or nap), there is no sub.

Period.

i disagree, completing a submission should be treated as a knockout, just because you can "take the pain" doesn't mean you didn't lose. it is unfair to have to make somebody else pull on your already broken limbs because you are too stubborn to admit defeat, nobody wants to do that to somebody else.
 
i disagree, completing a submission should be treated as a knockout, just because you can "take the pain" doesn't mean you didn't lose. it is unfair to have to make somebody else pull on your already broken limbs because you are too stubborn to admit defeat, nobody wants to do that to somebody else.

You can "disagree" all you want.

The tournaments have rules, and they were followed.

It's not a submission if the opponent doesn't submit. It's that simple. Roger failed to submit him, and so Jacare won the match because he gained more superior positions than Roger and won on points.
 
do you realize what "levels" are?

they are on the same level. one might be slightly better than other, but they are on the same level. bringing up serra and hughes to GSP is absolutely retarded. I don't even want to go there with you. you serious? LOL.

when hughes beat GSP he was better than him....at that time. GSP just got 10x better. and the Serra fight..I don't even know where to begin to talk about your logic.

anyway, maia/jacare/roger are all on the same level. if you disagree you need to look up the word level.

Is there some official standard for how much better someone has to be to be considered on another "level" that I'm not aware of? Is Mir on the same level as say, JDS? You could argue that they are, both are UFC championship level. Of course, then I could argue that they aren't, as JDS has a much better record overall, including against common opponents, and beat down Mir when they fought. I guess you could argue that not only are both of them on the same level, but so is say, Christian Morecraft...UFC level, or pro-mma level. In that sense you'd be correct, at least technically.

Again though, if you'd followed their careers we wouldn't even be discussing this. Roger is like the Michael Phelps of BJJ, the Lance Armstrong without the steroids. His medal chest is full of gold from almost every tournament he ever entered. Jacare's career was going similarly but he retired early...he won gold in very nearly every tournament he entered, with only a very few exceptions where he got silver.

Maia, on the other hand, is a guy who was competitive at the top level, but rarely won. He has a few good wins with ADCC being his best, but he likely only even won that because Jacare didn't compete that year, as Jacare easily beat Maia in the finals of the previous ADCC. Most of his medals are bronze and a few silver though, and he even entered some tournaments where he didn't even medal.

The fact of the matter is, Roger and Jacare are frequently talked about as among the best BJJ practitioners of all time, and rightly so. Their names in BJJ are comparable to the GSP's, Fedor's and Anderson Silva's of MMA. Maia is that guy that had a few good wins, a handful of losses to tough guys, and won a title during a weak period but never defended it. Like Forrest Griffin, perhaps? Nah, he's better than Forrest, but you get the idea. If that's not two different levels, then I don't know what is.
 
lolwut.jpg


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_House_(MMA)

http://black-house-casa-preta-mma.gymdb.com/

and we shall ignore the fact that lyoto machida was cornering him too or do all management do that? i think they might actually i can remember ed soares cornering anderson for the chael fight. noob

I'm not really sure what your arguing. I didn't say he doesn't train with those guys I just said that he didnt begin his training there. Also it's pretty well established black house is a management team bro. Noob
 
I'm not really sure what your arguing. I didn't say he doesn't train with those guys I just said that he didnt begin his training there. Also it's pretty well established black house is a management team bro. Noob

im not sure if you didnt see the links i posted or you don't understand the notion of a gym. either way stop trolling
 
Is there some official standard for how much better someone has to be to be considered on another "level" that I'm not aware of? Is Mir on the same level as say, JDS? You could argue that they are, both are UFC championship level. Of course, then I could argue that they aren't, as JDS has a much better record overall, including against common opponents, and beat down Mir when they fought. I guess you could argue that not only are both of them on the same level, but so is say, Christian Morecraft...UFC level, or pro-mma level. In that sense you'd be correct, at least technically.

Again though, if you'd followed their careers we wouldn't even be discussing this. Roger is like the Michael Phelps of BJJ, the Lance Armstrong without the steroids. His medal chest is full of gold from almost every tournament he ever entered. Jacare's career was going similarly but he retired early...he won gold in very nearly every tournament he entered, with only a very few exceptions where he got silver.

Maia, on the other hand, is a guy who was competitive at the top level, but rarely won. He has a few good wins with ADCC being his best, but he likely only even won that because Jacare didn't compete that year, as Jacare easily beat Maia in the finals of the previous ADCC. Most of his medals are bronze and a few silver though, and he even entered some tournaments where he didn't even medal.

The fact of the matter is, Roger and Jacare are frequently talked about as among the best BJJ practitioners of all time, and rightly so. Their names in BJJ are comparable to the GSP's, Fedor's and Anderson Silva's of MMA. Maia is that guy that had a few good wins, a handful of losses to tough guys, and won a title during a weak period but never defended it. Like Forrest Griffin, perhaps? Nah, he's better than Forrest, but you get the idea. If that's not two different levels, then I don't know what is.

Yeap.

By the way, Werdum is still more acomplished then Maia. Werdum in no-gi was always a top beast. A bit less in gi though
 
Is there some official standard for how much better someone has to be to be considered on another "level" that I'm not aware of? Is Mir on the same level as say, JDS? You could argue that they are, both are UFC championship level. Of course, then I could argue that they aren't, as JDS has a much better record overall, including against common opponents, and beat down Mir when they fought. I guess you could argue that not only are both of them on the same level, but so is say, Christian Morecraft...UFC level, or pro-mma level. In that sense you'd be correct, at least technically.

Again though, if you'd followed their careers we wouldn't even be discussing this. Roger is like the Michael Phelps of BJJ, the Lance Armstrong without the steroids. His medal chest is full of gold from almost every tournament he ever entered. Jacare's career was going similarly but he retired early...he won gold in very nearly every tournament he entered, with only a very few exceptions where he got silver.

Maia, on the other hand, is a guy who was competitive at the top level, but rarely won. He has a few good wins with ADCC being his best, but he likely only even won that because Jacare didn't compete that year, as Jacare easily beat Maia in the finals of the previous ADCC. Most of his medals are bronze and a few silver though, and he even entered some tournaments where he didn't even medal.

The fact of the matter is, Roger and Jacare are frequently talked about as among the best BJJ practitioners of all time, and rightly so. Their names in BJJ are comparable to the GSP's, Fedor's and Anderson Silva's of MMA. Maia is that guy that had a few good wins, a handful of losses to tough guys, and won a title during a weak period but never defended it. Like Forrest Griffin, perhaps? Nah, he's better than Forrest, but you get the idea. If that's not two different levels, then I don't know what is.

Excellent post, very informative. Thank you.

Instead of Forrest, maybe Shogun or Rampage?
 
Who has the best bjj? It's a tough question because all 3 have VERY good bjj and also different bjj, and in mma it's important to consider the particular style of bjj and how it is utilized.

In terms off straight grappling match, it would go Roger > Jacare > Maia, probably only a small advantage between each.

However, Roger and Maia are more basic and technical, while Jacare is more athletic. He's also better at takedowns than Roger and Maia and more prone to grabbing his submissions in the scramble, which is a nice translation for mma.

That said, I'm not of the opinion that you HAVE to have good striking. Aoki doesn't lose because he's a bad striker, he loses because he can't take a hit. He gets hit less than any non-striker, the problem is that he gets devestated when he is. Aoki plays the best bjj game you possibly could. If either of these 3 knew how to AVOID STRIKING and set up the clinch as well as Aoki, then imo they would become more successful than by just developing serviceable striking. I think Maia and Roger have a better chance at that with their more fundamental and self-defense jiu-jitsu approach, while Jacare is more capable of becoming a real striker with his sport/athletic approach.
 
Who has the best bjj? It's a tough question because all 3 have VERY good bjj and also different bjj, and in mma it's important to consider the particular style of bjj and how it is utilized.

In terms off straight grappling match, it would go Roger > Jacare > Maia, probably only a small advantage between each.

However, Roger and Maia are more basic and technical, while Jacare is more athletic. He's also better at takedowns than Roger and Maia and more prone to grabbing his submissions in the scramble, which is a nice translation for mma.

That said, I'm not of the opinion that you HAVE to have good striking. Aoki doesn't lose because he's a bad striker, he loses because he can't take a hit. He gets hit less than any non-striker, the problem is that he gets devestated when he is. Aoki plays bjj game you possibly could. If either of these 3 knew how to AVOID STRIKING and set up the clinch as well as Aoki, then imo they would become more successful than by just developing serviceable striking. I think Maia and Roger have a better chance at that with their more fundamental and self-defense jiu-jitsu approach, while Jacare is more capable of becoming a real striker with his sport/athletic approach.

Awesome post
 
im not sure if you didnt see the links i posted or you don't understand the notion of a gym. either way stop trolling

If you honestly think I'm trolling then everyone on sherdog must be a troll.

Black house is a management company run by Ed soares. They manage fighters and they have a large number of guys under their umbrella. They manage fighters from nova uniao (Aldo), evolve (RDA), team nog (nogs, Anderson), x gym (jacare), the pit (glover). All of these guys don't train together under one roof like Tristar or Jackson's. They have their own gyms/teams but are managed under the same company. That's not to say that lyoto and glover won't train together or silva and jacare won't spar together.
 
Roger has the best pure BJJ out of all three.

Jacare has the best TAKEDOWNS that actually allow him to put his elite BJJ to use. This aspect in addition to his solid striking makes him the most well-rounded Mixed Martial Artist of the three IMO

Maia is obviously the most seasoned/experienced of the three

But with all three, their BJJ skills will probably deteriorate as they commit more to MMA. That has already happened with Jacare and Maia. Jacare has recently announced retirement from BJJ competition after losing badly in his most recent BJJ match. I am not sure how serious Roger is about his MMA career, but I'd think he's the most likely of the three to go back to being a full-time BJJ practitioner

Well Put, Thanks for info.
 
If you honestly think I'm trolling then everyone on sherdog must be a troll.

Black house is a management company run by Ed soares. They manage fighters and they have a large number of guys under their umbrella. They manage fighters from nova uniao (Aldo), evolve (RDA), team nog (nogs, Anderson), x gym (jacare), the pit (glover). All of these guys don't train together under one roof like Tristar or Jackson's. They have their own gyms/teams but are managed under the same company. That's not to say that lyoto and glover won't train together or silva and jacare won't spar together.

this is the gym you idiot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnWqubCtG_w
 
I still put maia above Jacare on pure bjj.
Jacare has better takedowns

Roger's style will not get him far in the division imo. anyone with more than decent TDD can thwart him

Why he lost 2 of the 3 times they faced each other, and I am pretty sure Jacare was more dominant in the wins he had over Maia.
 

That's team nogs LA gym. They have black house advertising because its their management and sponsor. It's sort of like how at nova uniao there's alot of praetorian advertising all over the gym or how jaco hybrid has imperial athletics.

Besides that proves my point that the nogs, silva and lyoto train together while the rest of the team is spread out.
 
good question. but fyi Jakare's striking is not awful. it's pretty decent, actually. better than decent. it was awful years ago. better than Maia's, probably worse than Werdum's (who has been very impressive suddenly in the last few years)
 
That's team nogs LA gym. They have black house advertising because its their management and sponsor. It's sort of like how at nova uniao there's alot of praetorian advertising all over the gym or how jaco hybrid has imperial athletics.

Besides that proves my point that the nogs, silva and lyoto train together while the rest of the team is spread out.

have you read the title? "black house gym tour" if nova uniao was called pretorian it would be called pretorian. people come from all over the world to have their training there. it is a gym sir. nobody can tell me otherwise. you are too stupid to know it and i am being trolled to such an extent that i know it but cant help myself replying
 
Roger has the best pure BJJ out of all three.

Jacare has the best TAKEDOWNS that actually allow him to put his elite BJJ to use. This aspect in addition to his solid striking makes him the most well-rounded Mixed Martial Artist of the three IMO

Maia is obviously the most seasoned/experienced of the three

But with all three, their BJJ skills will probably deteriorate as they commit more to MMA. That has already happened with Jacare and Maia. Jacare has recently announced retirement from BJJ competition after losing badly in his most recent BJJ match. I am not sure how serious Roger is about his MMA career, but I'd think he's the most likely of the three to go back to being a full-time BJJ practitioner

Not sure for which style you are asking, Sir, so here's my 2 cents.

For "pure" BJJ: With Gi: Roger, Jacare, Maia (even though Maia beat Jacare (barely) in the past)

No Gi, I say Jacare, Roger, Maia.

For MMA BJJ (yes, there is a difference between MMA BJJ and No Gi): Jacare, Maia, Roger.

Can't argue with this. Excellent posts
 

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