People in the know re: BJJ honest question (Jacare, Roger, Maia)

[HerpDerp]

In pure BJJ:

1. Roger Gracie
2. Jacare
3. Maia

The differences in the intricacies of high level BJJ that seperate these 3 are not really visible in MMA competition, though.

I'd say all 3 of them are guys who are capable of submitting anyone on the ground in MMA, so I think the most valuable question here is who, out of the 3, can apply their grappling skills in the most effective manner in an MMA fight, and due to Jacare's slick Judo and his clearly visible athletic advantage over Maia and Roger, I'd say he's the most promising MMA prospect. But that's not even the question at hand, so go figure.

 

[Etherized]

Maia has a better chin than all of them, imho

yeah he got fliped over by nate, but I think he was still okay to fight. It was a monster shot too. He took some monster shots from Anderson Silva and kept going.

 

[Workaholic]

2005 ADCC finals, and also one at the Mundials, 2004 I think?

Right I never knew about that. I guess because Maia didn't cmpete in openweight that year. I can't find any record of the Mundials win though

 

[CosmicOsmo]

So Roger couldn't beat Jacare despite Jacare having a broken arm? What kind of pro-Roger argument is that?

Most of the pro-roger argument is based on accomplishments after Jacare had retired from BJJ and moved to MMA, when Roger went on an absolute tear and started submitting everyone with the same move in every tournament. Still, it's tough to say because when they were both competing they were very competitive with each other, I think Jacare would have racked up medals just like Roger did if he'd stayed in the game.

People forget that Jacare only competed at black belt for less than 2 years. Dude got his black belt, then promptly won the ABSOLUTE championship at the Mundials twice consecutively, as well as ADCC, then retired. I'm sure he could have kept dominating, but he didn't have anything left to prove.

 

[bonezerelli]

JJ is the gentle art folks, the info here is astounding, you have more than filled my brains with answers. No fighting please!

 

[CosmicOsmo]

Right I never knew about that. I guess because Maia didn't cmpete in openweight that year. I can't find any record of the Mundials win though

Sorry, it was 2005. He beat Maia in the semifinal and then Braulio in the final.

http://www.ibjjf.org/results/2005mundial.htm

 

[Terror Zone]

His BJJ game still looks monstrous in MMA, I definitely think that has transferred just fine. His problem is he's so lacking in explosiveness that his takedown and striking game just seems to be almost a lost cause. If the fight hits the ground though, he's still been incredibly dominant.

It's far too slow and methodical, he fights like it's the mid 90s and he's in some no time limit finish only tournament. These are 5 minute rounds, you can't just sit back and be patient until a takedown opportunity presents itself. He basically just lumbers around until he can get a hold of his opponent, hit a trip from the clinch and then slowly work to set up a submission. That doesn't cut it anymore, guys can gameplan for that shit all day.

 

[Workaholic]

Sorry, it was 2005. He beat Maia in the semifinal and then Braulio in the final.

http://www.ibjjf.org/results/2005mundial.htm

Thank you

 

[bjpenngoat]

roger always tries to implement his bjj in every fight, jacare is like maia, they think they are ghokan saki and try to kickbox too much.

 

[pretzelguard]

Roger has the best pure bjj as stated. He needs to go to a better MMA camp where he can improve his striking and wrestling. Jacare is the best MMAist out of the three.

rogers at blackhouse...

 

[CosmicOsmo]

It's far too slow and methodical, he fights like it's the mid 90s and he's in some no time limit finish only tournament. These are 5 minute rounds, you can't just sit back and be patient until a takedown opportunity presents itself. He basically just lumbers around until he can get a hold of his opponent, hit a trip from the clinch and then slowly work to set up a submission. That doesn't cut it anymore, guys can gameplan for that shit all day.

He definitely doesn't press for the takedown enough, or fight to enforce his game on his opponent, but once he does get you to the ground he's completely destroyed everyone he's fought. His BJJ game is working fine, it's his standup and takedown game that need work.

 

[Terror Zone]

roger always tries to implement his bjj in every fight, jacare is like maia, they think they are ghokan saki and try to kickbox too much.

No, they're just realize that you have to be a comptetent striker and at least engage a bit on the feet before you can take someone down. That's why they both submitted their last opponent in the first round, two guys who were far better fighters than Anthony Smith (who managed to take the first round off Roger).

 

[Baianada]

In no gi and gi BJJ Roger is far ahead from Jacar

 

[MMAdict]

rogers at blackhouse...

He must've just started then because I know he trained at renzos.

Also black house isn't a gym, it's a management. So he must be at one of nogs gyms.

 

[d0wnfall**]

Maia is a step below Roger and Jacare.

lmao wut? maia has beaten jacare. they are all on the same level, roger being slightly better than both. slightly. and probably only because of his size difference.

 

[Bolshevik***]

He must've just started then because I know he trained at renzos.

Also black house isn't a gym, it's a management. So he must be at one of nogs gyms.

i've only seen him training with machida. haven't seen him with either nog.

 

[differentday]

Speaking of Maia, I think he's been stepping up lately. It seems he's combining his BJJ with wrestling much much better.

 

[SerrabyTKO]

In no gi and gi BJJ Roger is far ahead from Jacar

 

[pretzelguard]

He must've just started then because I know he trained at renzos.

Also black house isn't a gym, it's a management. So he must be at one of nogs gyms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_House_(MMA)

http://black-house-casa-preta-mma.gymdb.com/

and we shall ignore the fact that lyoto machida was cornering him too or do all management do that? i think they might actually i can remember ed soares cornering anderson for the chael fight. noob

 

[CosmicOsmo]

lmao wut? maia has beaten jacare. they are all on the same level, roger being slightly better than both. slightly. and probably only because of his size difference.

If you actually follow all of their BJJ careers, you wouldn't say that. The difference is enough that I would say Roger not only beats, but submits Maia 9/10, and still beats him that 10th time, just on points. And yes, Maia has beaten Jacare, but if you knew the circumstances around that fight and all the others that they've had, as well as their records against common opponents and overall tournament results, you'd see that Jacare is a level above Maia. Remember, Hughes and Serra have beaten GSP as well, are they all on the same level?