Pavlik water-cooler talk

[Seano]

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[a jessup]

Where are you guys getting this shit?

Anyone who is saying that Pavliks race is not brought up everytime he fights are full of it. Jim Lampley harps on it over and over. I linked a story saying something similar.

I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP. I DON"T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT PAVLIKS SKIN. I WAS MAKING THE POINT THAT EVERY POPULAR FIGHTER EVENTUALLY ENDS UP BEING EXPOSED. WHEN THAT HAPPENS, OFTEN IT IS IMPLIED THAT THEY WERE OVERRATED OR WE GOT EXCITED ABOUT THEM BECAUSE ___ .

I never once said anything about him getting special treatment, I never even gave an opinion on the matter. It is a fact that hisrace is brought up by journalists, journalists who feed the public the information on these fighters.

I think some people were confused because of this:

It was more of a commentary on the fact that this giant fan base is going to diappear as soon as he loses badly, which I think is coming. Once he is exposed, no one is going to be talking about what a fantastic fighter he is, they are going to say we liked him because--- fill in the blanks.

The hype I hear over and over is that Pavlik is the white hope in boxing. Will he still be when he wakes up in the center of the ring trying to decide what to have for breakfast?

[emphases all mine]

Can you see how these specific words might be misconstrued? Regardless of what you meant, the tone of this passage suggests that Pavlik's a hype job who is propped up by racist fans. Thanks for clarifying your opinion, though -- I now understand what you're saying.

So your real problem lies with nitwit journalists who inject race where it doesn't belong.

 

[Seano]

I think some people were confused because of this:



Can you see how these specific words might be misconstrued? Regardless of what you meant, the tone of this passage suggests that Pavlik's a hype job who is propped up by racist fans. Thanks for clarifying your opinion, though.

So are you telling me that you think its a rarity in boxing that when a good fighter loses, many of his fans go as well? You've never seen that happen? Tyson? One loss and he was boxings biggest joke. Sam Peter got dropped by Jameel McCline and now he has a soft chin and is overrated.

part 2- I'm really not sure why this is so controversial. I have repeatedly heard Pavliks race brought up. I've linked several stories. I said nothing especially controversial. I just believe that will be one of the knocks on Pavlik, tat he was overhyped for what color, not what he is.

I think Pavlik will eventually be exposed. Are you saying no one will ever beat him in a devastating manner?

Are you saying that with the hype about his color, no one is going to say that perhaps we got overexcited about it?

I guess I'm not as big a fan as some of you guys. Sorry.

 

[Seano]

I think some people were confused because of this:



Can you see how these specific words might be misconstrued? Regardless of what you meant, the tone of this passage suggests that Pavlik's a hype job who is propped up by racist fans. Thanks for clarifying your opinion, though.

I said "the HYPE I HEAR." Not "the hype that every person reading this hears."
who are you to tell me what I hear and what I don't in broadcasts? If you didn't hear it, fine. Its not my fault you weren't paying attention.

 

[prontostar]

If an undefeated pink guy lit miranda up like Pavlik did he could've gotten a title shot. It's hard not to like the guy especially now that we know he's no fluke.

 

[Seano]

Its funny, this thread does sound like water cooler talk.

 

[a jessup]

So are you telling me that you think its a rarity in boxing that when a good fighter loses, many of his fans go as well? You've never seen that happen? Tyson? One loss and he was boxings biggest joke. Sam Peter got dropped by Jameel McCline and now he has a soft chin and is overrated.

And if you had left it at this, nobody would have complained. However, you went on to assert that his former fans would subsequently realise that they had rooted for his race, and not his skills. Not a very flattering opinion of his fans, and predictably, some of them objected.

part 2- I'm really not sure why this is so controversial. I have repeatedly heard Pavliks race brought up. I've linked several stories. I said nothing especially controversial. I just believe that will be one of the knocks on Pavlik, tat he was overhyped for what color, not what he is.

I think Pavlik will eventually be exposed. Are you saying no one will ever beat him in a devastating manner?

But that's not quite all, is it? You added that Kelly would be brutally knocked out SOON. This wasn't a casual opinion, you repeated it several times, and even claimed that a short reign was endemic to his style of fighting. That's not an irrational position, but it's also subject to criticism.

Are you saying that with the hype about his color, no one is going to say that perhaps we got overexcited about it?

I guess I'm not as big a fan as some of you guys. Sorry.

Yet this "hype", according to you, is an artifact of unprofessional journalism. It seems that you should focus on them rather than Pavlik's fanbase.

And no, I think you're wrong; I suspect that Kelly will retain most of his fans just like Hatton has. Why? Because the qualities that draw them -- Pavlik's power, excitement, humility, etc -- won't be erased by a loss, no matter how brutal.

I said "the HYPE I HEAR." Not "the hype that every person reading this hears."
who are you to tell me what I hear and what I don't in broadcasts? If you didn't hear it, fine. Its not my fault you weren't paying attention.

Oh, I've heard plenty of snarky comments, but I attribute them to embarrassment. After all, Pavlik spoils a lot of whiteboy jokes that are coin of the realm among sports writers.

 

[prontostar]

pavlik's defence is not that bad, he's good at blocking shots.


right place, right time, right color, right personality.

right power, right skills, right chin...and so forth and so on. Pavlik has made the jump to legit champ, he's no John Duddy.

 

[Seano]

1.And if you had left it at this, nobody would have complained. However, you went on to assert that his former fans would subsequently realise that they had rooted for his race, and not his skills. Not a very flattering opinion of his fans, and predictably, some of them objected.



2.But that's not quite all, is it? You added that Kelly would be brutally knocked out SOON. This wasn't a casual opinion, you repeated it several times, and even claimed that a short reign was endemic to his style of fighting. That's not an irrational position, but it's also subject to criticism.



3.Yet this "hype", according to you, is an artifact of unprofessional journalism. It seems that you should focus on them rather than Pavlik's fanbase.

4.And no, I think you're wrong; I suspect that Kelly will retain most of his fans just like Hatton has. Why? Because the qualities that draw them -- Pavlik's power, excitement, humility, etc -- won't be erased by a loss, no matter how brutal.



5.Oh, I've heard plenty of snarky comments, but I attribute them to embarrassment. After all, Pavlik spoils a lot of whiteboy jokes that's coin of the realm among sports writers.

1. Meh. I think its true. I do think people are going to question if their hype was warranted, or was it something else.

2. I do think Pavliks style sets him up for an unexpected KO loss.

3. Fans get their info from the press. Press directly influences the publics perception. Most people don't actuall know Kelly Pavlik.

4. Well I disagree. The hardcore fans are always there. I still root for Holyfield and still wonder if Gatti really made weight for his fight with Gamache. But right there are two fighters that absolutely prove this particular point. When youre on top, everyone loves you. Lose one and the fair weather fans are done with you.

5. I wouldn't know that. YOu may be right. If you and I hear it. Many others hear it as well.

 

[Cracky]

Pavlik will soon lose by brutal KO and then everyone will say how overrated he was and we only enjoyed his fights because hes white.

I dunno.. it's not like he's some ?? prospect. He's fire tested by one of the hardest punchers in the world..Miranda. I dont think he'll be ko'd.. He may lose.. but I think it will be by decision if he does..though his "keep on trucking" style will make that feet a walk through hell for anyone.
I said before that he reminds me of JC Chavez. He always has pressure on his opponent and trusts in his style to eventually work. That style takes a lot of faith in yourself, but it's really effective.

 

[prontostar]

i don't see that KO loss coming in the near future. I think his arms are too long and his chin is too good.

 

[Seano]

I dunno.. it's not like he's some ?? prospect. He's fire tested by one of the hardest punchers in the world..Miranda. I dont think he'll be ko'd.. He may lose.. but I think it will be by decision if he does..though his "keep on trucking" style will make that feet a walk through hell for anyone.
I said before that he reminds me of JC Chavez. He always has pressure on his opponent and trusts in his style to eventually work. That style takes a lot of faith in yourself, but it's really effective.

I guess we've all forgotten how badly Pavlik was hurt in that fight with Taylor?

 

[Cracky]

I guess we've all forgotten how badly Pavlik was hurt in that fight with Taylor?

No..didnt forget. Taylor can punch. That shot would have rocked anyone. Not many could have gotten up and kept on trucking after taking it though.

 

[Seano]

No..didnt forget. Taylor can punch. That shot would have rocked anyone. Not many could have gotten up and kept on trucking after taking it though.

But Taylor had failed to hurt any of his previous 5 or 6 opponents.

 

[a jessup]

But Taylor had failed to hurt any of his previous 5 or 6 opponents.

Sometimes you get caught.

Taylor did land some flush bombs in the rematch and Kelly took them well. Kelly also ate Lockett's Sunday best with no complaint.

 

[Cracky]

If Taylor hits anybody clean like that, they react. He fought a series of defensive fighters leading up to the pav fight.

 

[Mr.pain]

Pavlik is the new Monzon, I don't see him getting ko'd anytime soon.

He's the truth and is the most exciting champion to come in awhile, his skin color has nothing to do with it.

 

[AtomicPope]

Kelly Pavlik:

 

[AtomicPope]

I remember the Buzz around Tyson back when it was time for him to face Bruno. I was a kid back then and it's all anyone was talking about. All over the news. Every channel. People like power punchers.

Then again. Beano might be on to something. Tyson hung out with a lot of white guys in the 80's.

 

[MC Paul Barman]

Its funny, this thread does sound like water cooler talk.

Yeah, because you turned a simple post about some people at my working talking about Pavlik into a socio-political commentary on your perception of race relations.

What a fun guy to have around you are.