"only a white belt"

[yodaman]

Comparing a Judo black to a BJJ blue isn't really fair. I know lots of BJJ blues who train judo and still are browns. Talented ones too.

BJJ black to Judo black, different story.

 

[Guards]

Let's shift away from Blue = Black and say... Purple = Black then. That's probably a more accurate general concensus, anyway.

Blue can be made, with talent, in 8-10 mos. Judo Black usually requires at LEAST 2 years on a daily training + talent basis.

Most people will shun the 'white belt' unless you explain, because unlike BJJ, and a (good) Judo club, I think people are referencing what they know. Like, they know that Little Timmy down the road is a blue belt in Karate, or their nephew Steven got promoted to Yellow Belt after 1 month in TKD. So, if 8-12 year old little boys and girls can get to purple, or whatever... What's wrong with YOU? :icon_sad:

 

[Justyn Riley]

Is it just me, or that in a country where any 12 year old can get a black belt, the typical joe-schmoe finds the white belt strange/surprising in all sorts of different ways?

I've had people who train in MAs other than BJJ (or don't train) ask "2 years and you're only a white belt?"

and about every other non-grappler that I've grappled with and subbed has pretty much asked the same question, except wihout the "2 years" and "only" in bold capital letters

anyone else have similar experiences? especially humorous ones? share em here

2 and a half years on sherdog and you're only a white belt? lol

 

[BCarr]

When I have to explain to someone BJJ rank I try to describe it as
Blue= advanced student
Purple= low level / assitant instructor
Brown= Full instuctor
Black= master

While the analogy isn't perfect, It helps give practitioners of other martial arts sense of what the belts in BJJ mean in a context they know.

Actually, I think your analogy is pretty good. I'm an assistant instructor at purple belt. My 8 year old niece is a red belt in TKD (for kids, they have to progress through red belt stripes before they get their black belt...yes, I had to ask). When she got her purple, she thought she was hot shit because she was equal with uncle B. When she got her brown and red, she got a little cocky and mouthy. My sister had to tell her the difference...but she is still taken by the color of belts. My sis then brought her down to my house one night to watch the Dream tournament. Gave her quite a different outlook on things.

The funny thing is, after I had met her TKD instructors a few times and my sister told them what I do, they began treating me with a very high level of respect. I thought that was kinda cool.

 

[SMillard]

Actually, I think your analogy is pretty good. I'm an assistant instructor at purple belt. My 8 year old niece is a red belt in TKD (for kids, they have to progress through red belt stripes before they get their black belt...yes, I had to ask). When she got her purple, she thought she was hot shit because she was equal with uncle B. When she got her brown and red, she got a little cocky and mouthy. My sister had to tell her the difference...but she is still taken by the color of belts. My sis then brought her down to my house one night to watch the Dream tournament. Gave her quite a different outlook on things.

The funny thing is, after I had met her TKD instructors a few times and my sister told them what I do, they began treating me with a very high level of respect. I thought that was kinda cool.

should have choked her little ass, that would have set her straight. Then you'd get great gifts at xmas, wouldn't want to piss off uncle B.

The funniest thing was when I got my blue, I really didn't want it. I didn't feel I deserved it and from talking to other people I'm not the exception. In fact when I start going to a different school I'm going to slap on ole whitey especially since it will probably be close to a year between training.

 

[Mohawk79]

Let's shift away from Blue = Black and say... Purple = Black then. That's probably a more accurate general concensus, anyway.

Blue can be made, with talent, in 8-10 mos. Judo Black usually requires at LEAST 2 years on a daily training + talent basis.

Most people will shun the 'white belt' unless you explain, because unlike BJJ, and a (good) Judo club, I think people are referencing what they know. Like, they know that Little Timmy down the road is a blue belt in Karate, or their nephew Steven got promoted to Yellow Belt after 1 month in TKD. So, if 8-12 year old little boys and girls can get to purple, or whatever... What's wrong with YOU? :icon_sad:

It has a lot to do with the fact the here in American most people are still idiotic as fuck when it comes to common knowledge about martial arts. Not to mention the fact that belt systems are in general flawed anyway. I know lots of good grapplers that have no ranking whatsoever in any particular art.

 

[Gary Peters]

BJJ isnt your average TMA. Skill and dedication is required to progress in belts. I know people who attend Karate classes 1-2 times a week for a couple months and have already been promoted to a couple different belts. I gave up on most people though. It's hard enough explaining what BJJ is let alone explaining how hard it is to advance belt levels.

 

[Piper]

Ive been training at my gym for about 6 months in muay thai and bjj, and other schools for the last 3 years or so.

Im supposed to start my first day of gi grappling tommorow, because I wasnt originally interested in it but after observing it I am going to do it.

Will my time rolling in the no gi classes and previous experience come into play when elevating belts?

Maybe. Gi schools will want you to spend the time to learn their gi techniques before they give you a belt. Obviously, what you learned effectively in no-gi training will apply, but they will probably insist on all the techniques using collars, cuffs, sleeves, etc..

I never bothered with the gi. Outside of a few possible collar chokes, it isn't reality based, and you almost never see an MMA pro get into a cage with one on now. The habitual use of a gi can actually make you more vulnerable in a match, too.

One of my instructors, a brown belt, taught no-gi classes at his school. He was then and still is one of the biggest namew and well-know fighters in MMA. He told our no-gi class that he would talk to his black belt instructor about getting us belts. He said most were at blue belt level and some at purple (myself). The black belt's own classes were all gi. He said he would not give any belt to anyone who didn't know all the gi techniques he required. When we were told that we said forget the belts, we know what we can do and don't need to put on a gi and learn techniques wouldn't use or need.

If you want a belt to have a belt or some status or to eventually be an instructor, then you'll probably have to put on the gi and learn the gi stuff, and pay for those additional classes or private lessons.

A couple of no-gi schools, locally, recently told their students they would all have to buy gis and that half the classes would be in the gi, and that belts would only be given to those who mastered respective levels of gi techniques. Some of those guys trained outside of classes with me at my place. They were pissed, and several quit the school.

There are mixed motives in insisting on gi techniques for belt rank. Part of it is if it is pure BJJ and you are going to be a pure BJJer, rather than ValeTudo/MMA then the gi is expected. But, and I have heard this from some gi instructors, some know that it takes much longer to learn the gi techniques and that keeps students paying for lessons longer and is an added source of revenue and possible gi and belt fees and test fees too. Also, many gi guys with advanced belts aren't as good without the gi and their learners progress faster against their instructors without it. A no-gi learner can start stalemating his instructors much sooner than guys in the gi - that can have an ego cost as well as a financial cost to the instructors.

I got into the who scene many years ago to learn effective ground self defense, the workout, and the fun. I don't care that after 8 years I'm still a "white belt". I'll tease guys that train with me when they announce they got a new belt at their regular school - I tell them if they bring it to my place and we roll and I win I'll take the belt from them. They NEVER bring the belt or wear the gi here.

 

[FLMikeATT]

Gi isn't reality based?

Come on now, that's just stupid.

There are lots of different kinds of clothes that simulate a gi. Shit, you can collar choke someone with a t shirt.

Tell me, what's more common: People walking down the street wearing a shirt/jacket/top, or people walking down the street bare chested?

 

[Bucketbot]

Some really interesting discussions here!

The good old "color of your belt" debate...

Funny you can tell your friend/co-workers that you are "only" a purple belt in BJJ and they will laugh at you and ask "damn how long have you been training, my little cousin got his black belt in rex-kwon-do in 18 months!"...

Yet if you tell anyone "in the know" that you are a "only" a purple belt in BJJ...they will be damn well scarred of you (and rightfully so:icon_chee) because they will know that you are more than likely a monster on the mat!

Comes down to...it is what it is...
Some people get it...some people do not...

 

[Deloitte]

Maybe. Gi schools will want you to spend the time to learn their gi techniques before they give you a belt. Obviously, what you learned effectively in no-gi training will apply, but they will probably insist on all the techniques using collars, cuffs, sleeves, etc..

I never bothered with the gi. Outside of a few possible collar chokes, it isn't reality based, and you almost never see an MMA pro get into a cage with one on now. The habitual use of a gi can actually make you more vulnerable in a match, too.

One of my instructors, a brown belt, taught no-gi classes at his school. He was then and still is one of the biggest namew and well-know fighters in MMA. He told our no-gi class that he would talk to his black belt instructor about getting us belts. He said most were at blue belt level and some at purple (myself). The black belt's own classes were all gi. He said he would not give any belt to anyone who didn't know all the gi techniques he required. When we were told that we said forget the belts, we know what we can do and don't need to put on a gi and learn techniques wouldn't use or need.

If you want a belt to have a belt or some status or to eventually be an instructor, then you'll probably have to put on the gi and learn the gi stuff, and pay for those additional classes or private lessons.

A couple of no-gi schools, locally, recently told their students they would all have to buy gis and that half the classes would be in the gi, and that belts would only be given to those who mastered respective levels of gi techniques. Some of those guys trained outside of classes with me at my place. They were pissed, and several quit the school.

There are mixed motives in insisting on gi techniques for belt rank. Part of it is if it is pure BJJ and you are going to be a pure BJJer, rather than ValeTudo/MMA then the gi is expected. But, and I have heard this from some gi instructors, some know that it takes much longer to learn the gi techniques and that keeps students paying for lessons longer and is an added source of revenue and possible gi and belt fees and test fees too. Also, many gi guys with advanced belts aren't as good without the gi and their learners progress faster against their instructors without it. A no-gi learner can start stalemating his instructors much sooner than guys in the gi - that can have an ego cost as well as a financial cost to the instructors.

I got into the who scene many years ago to learn effective ground self defense, the workout, and the fun. I don't care that after 8 years I'm still a "white belt". I'll tease guys that train with me when they announce they got a new belt at their regular school - I tell them if they bring it to my place and we roll and I win I'll take the belt from them. They NEVER bring the belt or wear the gi here.

Try training both, then you can make a real assessment of whether or not it was a wise decision to focus 100% on no-gi. You are just speculating that Gi will not help your no-gi game, when in fact the argument has been done 1000 times and even the best BJJers stress the importance of Gi for technical purposes.

 

[ssckp86]

Some really interesting discussions here!

The good old "color of your belt" debate...

Funny you can tell your friend/co-workers that you are "only" a purple belt in BJJ and they will laugh at you and ask "damn how long have you been training, my little cousin got his black belt in rex-kwon-do in 18 months!"...

Yet if you tell anyone "in the know" that you are a "only" a purple belt in BJJ...they will be damn well scarred of you (and rightfully so:icon_chee) because they will know that you are more than likely a monster on the mat!

Comes down to...it is what it is...
Some people get it...some people do not...

This is the ultimate goal of my life.
I envy that little cousin

 

[BCarr]

should have choked her little ass, that would have set her straight. Then you'd get great gifts at xmas, wouldn't want to piss off uncle B.

ok....I choked on my lunch laughing at that one! :icon_lol:

I actually felt bad one day when she was kicking me with roundhouses and I instinctively pulled my shin up to block. She had never felt shin on shin contact before. I will eventually turn her into one vicious broad.

 

[whipyourasstyle]

Maybe. Gi schools will want you to spend the time to learn their gi techniques before they give you a belt. Obviously, what you learned effectively in no-gi training will apply, but they will probably insist on all the techniques using collars, cuffs, sleeves, etc..

I never bothered with the gi. Outside of a few possible collar chokes, it isn't reality based, and you almost never see an MMA pro get into a cage with one on now. The habitual use of a gi can actually make you more vulnerable in a match, too.

One of my instructors, a brown belt, taught no-gi classes at his school. He was then and still is one of the biggest namew and well-know fighters in MMA. He told our no-gi class that he would talk to his black belt instructor about getting us belts. He said most were at blue belt level and some at purple (myself). The black belt's own classes were all gi. He said he would not give any belt to anyone who didn't know all the gi techniques he required. When we were told that we said forget the belts, we know what we can do and don't need to put on a gi and learn techniques wouldn't use or need.

If you want a belt to have a belt or some status or to eventually be an instructor, then you'll probably have to put on the gi and learn the gi stuff, and pay for those additional classes or private lessons.

A couple of no-gi schools, locally, recently told their students they would all have to buy gis and that half the classes would be in the gi, and that belts would only be given to those who mastered respective levels of gi techniques. Some of those guys trained outside of classes with me at my place. They were pissed, and several quit the school.

There are mixed motives in insisting on gi techniques for belt rank. Part of it is if it is pure BJJ and you are going to be a pure BJJer, rather than ValeTudo/MMA then the gi is expected. But, and I have heard this from some gi instructors, some know that it takes much longer to learn the gi techniques and that keeps students paying for lessons longer and is an added source of revenue and possible gi and belt fees and test fees too. Also, many gi guys with advanced belts aren't as good without the gi and their learners progress faster against their instructors without it. A no-gi learner can start stalemating his instructors much sooner than guys in the gi - that can have an ego cost as well as a financial cost to the instructors.

I got into the who scene many years ago to learn effective ground self defense, the workout, and the fun. I don't care that after 8 years I'm still a "white belt". I'll tease guys that train with me when they announce they got a new belt at their regular school - I tell them if they bring it to my place and we roll and I win I'll take the belt from them. They NEVER bring the belt or wear the gi here.

There are so many things wrong with this post I'll have to sit down later and respond properly. WOW just fucking WOW. :redface:

 

[mvisit1]

Hahaha. At least jiu jitsu guys for the most part can take the shit. I guess it feels good knowing even as a trained white belt you could destroy and untrained grappler in less than a minute. Good thing most guys don't have much to prove or else jiu jitsu would cause a lot of fights with it's slow and steady promotion system, lol.

It doesn't matter what belt you are, I would hope that a trained grappler could destroy an untrained grappler in way less than 1 minute. They have no idea what they're doing and you do. I'm a BJJ white belt, how does the promotion system work? I haven't asked yet, I've only been doing it for a few months. Correct me if I'm wrong...

In traditional martial arts, you only learn certain techniques at each level, when you get a new belt you learn new techniques.

In BJJ you learn everything up front and they kind of just subjectively promote you when it is felt that you have a (blue/purple/brown/black) understanding/proficiency with the techniques. This is generally about 2 years per belt. Is this correct?

 

[jasond]

This is generally about 2 years per belt. Is this correct?

Not necessarily. A lot of times (from what I've seen), blue to purple and purple to brown are longer than 2 years. Also, brown to black can go faster than 2 years on average.

From what I've seen at the 2 schools I've been affiliated with, the averages are some where along these lines (nothing set in stone, of course):

white to blue - 2 years
blue to purple - 3 years (5 total)
purple to brown - 3 / 4 years (8 - 9 years total)
brown to black - 1 / 2 years (10 - 11 years total)

Again, that's nothing set in stone. Some guys got their blue in a year and a half, some guys stayed blue until they had over 6 years, etc. That just seemed to be the averages over all.

 

[JRT6]

There are so many things wrong with this post I'll have to sit down later and respond properly. WOW just fucking WOW. :redface:

If the guy thinks no-gi submission is street fighting and dosen't have a whole lot of real unsafe safe techniques then why waste your breath.

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

shouldnt you care about your training partners growth and improvement, not only your own? you dont wanna be the guy who rolls all out with your partner for the tap and in the end you take away form both of your training.
not trying to criticize, you may have just meant it a different way then i read.

I think he meant that he's not training to prove anything to anybody, or to show off like he's tough.

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

Gi isn't reality based?

Come on now, that's just stupid.

There are lots of different kinds of clothes that simulate a gi. Shit, you can collar choke someone with a t shirt.

Tell me, what's more common: People walking down the street wearing a shirt/jacket/top, or people walking down the street bare chested?

That's the thing, neither are entirely realistic. But hell, even if you live in a hot place, chances are that in an encounter, your opponent will be wearing some kind of clothing. That said, you won't be able to do everything with street clothes that you can do with a gi. But it's good to have the option if it presents itself. Train both.

 

[mvisit1]

That's the thing, neither are entirely realistic. But hell, even if you live in a hot place, chances are that in an encounter, your opponent will be wearing some kind of clothing. That said, you won't be able to do everything with street clothes that you can do with a gi. But it's good to have the option if it presents itself. Train both.

You know what else isn't entirely realistic? Pure BJJ. You're not worried about getting hit while you methodically work for positions and submissions! Marcelo Garcia is 0-1 in MMA.