Official Women's Division Discussion #26

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If you get a chance check out Macfarlane v Letourneau from Bellator 213 (December 15 in Honolulu). Macfarlane fighting a few minutes from where she grew up. Dramatic & moving opening featuring native singers & dancers. The fight lived up to the hype. One of my favorites evah!

Can't have good talk about Bellator without bringing up the fact that they TOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTALLY fucked up bigtime on this one. Having a star-making event like this, and they bury it on DAYS-INN.

They did everything perfectly right that the UFC does incredibly wrong..... And it passes by in the night on a subscription service, instead of Paramount. Fucking idiots.
 
@thatdude21601 is making some good points. KH nearly died last time she tried cutting to atomweight. There's a possibility others would try too hard to move down. I enjoy a lot of atomweight fights. Invicta & Rizin have some really fun ones. Don't know if I'd trust UFC or its fighters to do it in a healthy way.
 
@thatdude21601 is making some good points. KH nearly died last time she tried cutting to atomweight. There's a possibility others would try too hard to move down. I enjoy a lot of atomweight fights. Invicta & Rizin have some really fun ones. Don't know if I'd trust UFC or its fighters to do it in a healthy way.
That was realatively short notice.
 
Can't have good talk about Bellator without bringing up the fact that they TOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTALLY fucked up bigtime on this one. Having a star-making event like this, and they bury it on DAYS-INN.

They did everything perfectly right that the UFC does incredibly wrong..... And it passes by in the night on a subscription service, instead of Paramount. Fucking idiots.

No kidding! Major bonehead move. Macfarlane has said they're doing a mini-doc about it and I will check that out.
 
Anyone recognize any of these people? I see Hracho and Cornelia Holm on either side closest to the coaches, but don't know who the other fighters are.
 
I think the question is not "should the UFC have an atom weight division?" It's more like, can Bellator, UFC, and Invicta establish and sustain atom weight divisions? WMMA seems to be growing in popularity - fight orgs that have it and promote it are prospering. But, for the lower and upper end of the weight spectrum, it might be hard for all the above fight orgs to support divisions (not to mention Jewels, ONE, etc.). Let's face it, 145 is too sparse for several fight orgs to support it. Atom weight might be a similar case. I'm for the UFC establishing an atom weight division...but if they dick around and let Bellator establish their AW division first, it might just spread out the talent and actually prevent the match ups we want to see.


Jarl
 
The problem with the UFC is they've always sucked donkey balls at building new divisions from scratch. Not just the women's divisions, all divisions.

What they're good at is poaching fighters or even entire divisions from other organizations. The UFC had a dogshit LW division and no lower weight classes until they imported everyone from WEC. Women's 135 was inherited from Strikeforce and filled out with fighters who were poached from various other organizations. 115 started as mostly Invicta vets with a few fighters from elsewhere, it was later filled out with a bunch of signings from other orgs.

They would fail badly at trying to build women's 145 unless they're willing to spend the money to poach Bellator and Invicta's entire 145 rosters, and even that's a short term solution since you still need to figure out a way to get the talent pipeline flowing at the amateur and early pro levels. Those fighters ain't gonna be around forever and unless you can produce new talent to replace them as they retire the division is still dead in the long run.

IMO, let another organization build 145, and if it gets to a healthy level one day the UFC can do its usual poaching routine.

Sorry again for the delaying - major adulting these past few weeks.

The problem with 145 is the same problem with 135 in Invicta - the experience gap. There are women fighting as high as 155 but many are just amateurs or overseas. Bellator is in a way better position as they do a lot of European shows versus the UFC.

Once Cyborg becomes a free agent it will be interesting. ONE will bring is probably a way better offer than the UFC. I am not sure Bellator could offer what the UFC does, but there is more opportunities for her to fight different styles (boxing, kickboxing, ect.) and possibly fight for Rizin in Japan.

Side note - Ediane Gomes is fighting in March.

 
Gonna throw this out....

So Rose is returning a little over a year after her last fight. Most champs could not get away with that - some got stripped because they didn't agree to a fight in 4 months.

My question - why wasn't there an interim champ crowned at least? No offense to Rose but we have three viable contenders (two solidified back in September) and they had to wait with no fights in six months. Tatiana is next in line but will have to wait til at least late summer to get her shot. Roughly a year since she last fought.
 
Gonna throw this out....

So Rose is returning a little over a year after her last fight. Most champs could not get away with that - some got stripped because they didn't agree to a fight in 4 months.

My question - why wasn't there an interim champ crowned at least? No offense to Rose but we have three viable contenders (two solidified back in September) and they had to wait with no fights in six months. Tatiana is next in line but will have to wait til at least late summer to get her shot. Roughly a year since she last fought.

What champion was ever stripped in 4 months?

Most interm titles are a result of a last minute injury or ppv schedule hole. I'd imagine that the UFC wanted this fight in Brazil because they've been having trouble getting good fights on those cards in the past years. Also I'm assuming Jessica didn't want any part of Suarez or an interm title (post tony and colby).
 
Alesha Zappitella, Alyse Anderson, Herica Tiburcio, Ashley Cummins, Kyra Batara, Jayme Hinshaw, Lindsey VanZandt, Jillian DeCoursey, Kelly D'Angelo, Amber Brown just to name a few. Not to mention Frey and Grusander. Grace Cleveland is due back early this year after a severe neck injury. Some might need another win or two before they get picked up, but the first 7 would be a good start to a division. Pick up a handful of the best Asian fighters like Ham, Hamasaki, and Asakura, and have a couple girls from 115 drop and you have yourself a pretty good division. Definitely better than 145 and as a whole better than 135 in a year or two.
I don't have an opinion either way if the UFC should have an Atomweight division but Aside from Alesha Zappitella (who clearly has potential to go far), Ham, Hamasaki, and Asakura, i'm not really wowed by that list of fighters tbh.

I will say 105 definitely has more of a case for a division than 145, get rid of that division ASAP.
 
Gonna throw this out....

So Rose is returning a little over a year after her last fight. Most champs could not get away with that - some got stripped because they didn't agree to a fight in 4 months.

My question - why wasn't there an interim champ crowned at least? No offense to Rose but we have three viable contenders (two solidified back in September) and they had to wait with no fights in six months. Tatiana is next in line but will have to wait til at least late summer to get her shot. Roughly a year since she last fought.

Well I was thinking the UFC didn't want Andrade anywhere near a belt, she ticks too many negative boxes from farm girl muscles to lack of English. Booking the fight in Brazil knocks that theory on the head and suggests to me the promotion has run out of patience with Rose. To tell the truth I won't be surprised if the fight falls through and Suarez steps in to take on Jessica.
 
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The problem with Bellator is they have so few females on their rosters, just a champ and a couple of girls being groomed for a challenge. A 105 division there would give sporadic employment to half a dozen at most.

As for 105 encouraging weight cutting that is probably right, but it is a problem with weight cutting in general. What you have now is genuine 115 pounders fighting 130 pounders at straw. Solve the weight cutting issue first before denying the smaller girls a division they can make.

Btw why the obsession with 10 pound steps, boxing survived for decades with 112, 118, 127, 135, 147 lower divisions. Make atom 107 or 108 - that would rule out the 130 walk arounds while giving the more genuine girls an easier cut.
 
World Championship Weight Classes in Womyn's olympic combat sports (metric uber alles):

Boxing
boxing-glove_1f94a.png

45 – 48 Kg (Light Flyweight)
51 Kg (Flyweight)
54 Kg (Bantamweight)
57 Kg (Lightweight)
60 Kg (Light Welterweight)
64 Kg (Welterweight)
69 Kg (Middleweight)
75 Kg (Light Heavyweight)
81 Kg (Heavyweight)
81+ Kg (Super Heavyweight)

Judo
martial-arts-uniform_1f94b.png

Open category (no weight limits)
+78 kg Heavyweight
-78 kg Half heavyweight
-70 kg Middleweight
-63 kg Half middleweight
-57 kg Lightweight
-52 kg Half lightweight
-48 kg Extra lightweight

Wrestling ‍
women-wrestling_1f93c-200d-2640-fe0f.png

-50 kg
-53 kg
-55 kg
-57 kg
-59 kg
-62 kg
-65 kg
-68 kg
-72 kg
-76 kg

Taekwondo <{Heymansnicker}>
−46 kg Finweight
−49 kg Flyweight
−53 kg Bantamweight
−57 kg Featherweight
−62 kg Lightweight
−67 kg Welterweight
−73 kg Middleweight
+73 kg Heavyweight


I don't know how these things go in the other sports but in wrestling 48kg was the lowest class until last year, when they switched to 2 day competition (instead of 1 day) requiring 2 weigh ins and raised the weight limit to 50kg to encourage people to stay at a healthily maintainable weight.
48 kg is 105 lbs.

I guess TKD has 46kg as it's lowest because there are a lot of azns on teh board or something
 
IFMA muay thai this year had;

45 kg (11 fighters)
48 kg (14 fighters)
51 kg (11 fighters)
54 kg (11 fighters)
57 kg (12 fighters)
60 kg (14 fighters)
63.5 kg (14 fighters)
67 kg (9 fighters)
71 kg (8 fighters)
75 kg (4 fighters)
75+ kg (4 fighters)

Take into consideration these are closer to walking weight, and that MMA people just cut a lot more. An example is that Antonina fought at 63.5 (about 138lbs) her last year in 2017.

Also these are not as Asian-centric are you might think either. 45kg had four Asians (USA, Philippines, Vietnam, and Singapore), and 48kg only had three (Thailand, Kazakhstan, Singapore). If Russians would get their shit together regarding wmma, there'd be a Russian for every weight class.
 
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Anyone recognize any of these people? I see Hracho and Cornelia Holm on either side closest to the coaches, but don't know who the other fighters are.


A couple of other names mentioned are English amateur Beckie Ainscough and Mellony Geugjes, also a Czech Sandra Maskova and from Greece Christina Stelliou. Maybe Demolition Jacqui and French woman Manon Fiorot looking at hashtags.

Oh and add Romanian Alice Ardelean, she's a definite.
 
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A couple of other names mentioned are English amateur Beckie Ainscough and Mellony Geugjes, also a Czech Sandra Maskova and from Greece Christina Stelliou. Maybe Demolition Jacqui and French woman Manon Fiorot looking at hashtags.

Geugjes is clear as day now that you mention her. Off to google the other names ...
 
Anyone recognize any of these people? I see Hracho and Cornelia Holm on either side closest to the coaches, but don't know who the other fighters are.

Kaytlin Neil got cut from the show last minute, and that’s Jacqueline Trossé (a can, but one of EFC’s staples) on the far right.

Noticed Ardelean Alice of Romania is competing as well.
 
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There's a few fights happening at Valor FC 54 in Knoxville, TN next weekend.

135: Shanna Young (4-1) vs. Jessica Borga (1-1)
125: Taylor Turner (1-6) vs. Ashley Samples (0-2)
125: Christina Ricker (0-1) vs. Hayley Turner (2-1)
105: Carmen Millagros (0-0, 4-2 Ammy) vs. Tabatha Ann Watkins (2-0)

Young is best known for being a former KOTC Champion with a win over Pam Sorenson. She made her return to the sport after a 2 year hiatus and fought Lisa Spangler for Invicta in September and suffered her first pro loss by Split Decision
Hayley Turner and Tabatha Ann Watkins are more of the fighters out of the Team SFS camp in Michigan who train with Amanda Cooper, Alesha Zappitella, and Kristi Garr. They're all turned into quite the stable. Smaller gyms don't tend to have many women training partners but SFS has done a great job bringing in talent from all over the world including Andrea Lee, Molly McCann, Andy Nguyen, and Montana De La Rosa for recent camps.
 
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