Opinion Ocasio-Cortez annihilates Trump about wall

[Mr Holmes]

What about you look it up? Seriously how hard can it be... Why do you not believe something you haven't bothered to use two seconds to check.

Since 2007 Visa Overstays have Outnumbered Undocumented Border Crossers by a Half Million
http://cmsny.org/publications/jmhs-visa-overstays-border-wall/

Half of the Illegal Population Are Overstays?
The State Department needs to do a better job
https://cis.org/Arthur/Half-Illegal-Population-Are-Overstays

Analyzing the New Visa Overstay Report
https://cis.org/Report/Analyzing-New-Visa-Overstay-Report

Most are Canadian btw. Here's a sample from 2015.

Also 20 million is half of the illegal immigrants now? You don't even know the estimates. Something you can look up again.

We don't even have a clear idea how many illegal aliens are in the US.

 

[Renard]

The hysteria is real. The US treats its' illegal immigrants like kings compared to most countries around the world where you'd be in deep trouble for being caught breaking the law. The way she acts, you'd think they were boiling the immigrants alive or sending them off to work in mines. No, they're just receiving the softest, most humane treatment in the world, how horrible.

 

[nostradumbass]

So one study by 2 guys vs the numbers of the DHS and Pew.

You are correct that the number may be underestimated, but if thats the case then it means that visa overstays are an even bigger problem.

Yeah, I would imagine an estimate base on actual data would be more accurate than one very specific survey used to arrive at the previous low number that anybody living here knows isn't true.

And why does it mean that? There's not some law that dictates the visa overstays must maintain a consistent ratio with illegal border crossings. The difference between the previous guess and the one based on data would be nearly all illegal crossings since that who we didn't even know had come here, which is kind of the point of an immigration system.

Have the dems proposed anything to get rid of visa overstays, since according to you and them, that's a big problem?

 

[chrisdiaz]

She sounds like a college student debating ben shepiro. Shes so worked up she cant even get her point across clearly.

Thats not someone you want making what should be bi-partisan decisions that effect a nation.

 

[Bobby 3 Sticks]

Something else I keep hearing about. I noticed it was only after Trump started talking about a wall did the so called better alternatives get brought up (with no plan on executing them).

Except that's a lie
https://www.politifact.com/florida/...order-security-and-patrols-under-obama-previ/

Obama increased border patroling after Bush and continued the Secure Fencing Act that the Republican Senate and POTUS passed in 2006

 

[Rod1]

Yeah, I would imagine an estimate base on actual data would be more accurate than one very specific survey used to arrive at the previous low number that anybody living here knows isn't true.

And why does it mean that? There's not some law that dictates the visa overstays must maintain a consistent ratio with illegal border crossings. The difference between the previous guess and the one based on data would be nearly all illegal crossings since that who we didn't even know had come here, which is kind of the point of an immigration system.

Have the dems proposed anything to get rid of visa overstays, since according to you and them, that's a big problem?

So you think the DHS, Pew research and CMS didnt used data and just pulled the number out of their asses?

 

[nostradumbass]

So you think the DHS, Pew research and CMS didnt used data and just pulled the number out of their asses?

Yes, it was based on census surveys and both parties used to agree that illegal immigration was a bad thing so they weren't exactly advertising their illegal status.

 

[Bobby 3 Sticks]

Yea apparently for taking kids away from parents. I like to put it a different way. Taking kids away from people claiming to be their parents but we have no other proof other than their word. It is common for traffickers to pretend they are relatives\parents to traffic children.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...33a4d31bcc8_story.html?utm_term=.8c129141c8a8

Just one example: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...im-back/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.7d6e18233a24

The easy solution is if you're going to house them, house them together.

 

[spamking]

And Jim Acosta makes a great case for a wall/barrier, etc.

 

[method115]

Just one example: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...im-back/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.7d6e18233a24

The easy solution is if you're going to house them, house them together.

It's not that easy when you have people lying about who is their kid and who is not. Now you are housing sex predators with their victims. This women should have went through the proper channels of seeking asylum instead of entering illegally.

 

[Andy Capp]

I was just examining all aspects of this argument and addressing this counter argument to the wall I hear often.


you mean by ICE? could you expand on this?

do you believe the conditions of which these immigrants/migrants are being held is "inhumane?"

genuine question, not trolling. interested in honest conversatoin

Tell me what you think,
"John Sandweg, acting director of ICE from 2013 to 2014, said the problems stem from the fact that holding areas were designed to lock up adults for just a few hours while CBP processed paperwork.

“They’re inappropriate, frankly, for children,” he said."
-- https://globalnews.ca/news/4339995/us-migrants-detention-ice-boxes-dog-pounds/

"Reports of harsh conditions in CBP facilities have surfaced repeatedly for years, including again recently when the government began separating children and parents. The new declarations are remarkable both for the number of detainee voices and the consistency of detail in what they report.

While a few immigrants said that conditions were adequate, most described cold temperatures, too little food, difficult separations from their children and crowded cells without enough sleeping mats. They said latrines were dirty and lacked privacy and that lights stayed on day and night.

James Tomsheck, who served as assistant commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Protection for internal affairs from 2006 to 2014, told Reuters that the facilities were designed for brief stays.

“There is no question that the amount of time persons are being held at these, what are designed to be temporary detention facilities, has become much longer than it was intended.”

Detainees refer to some of the facilities as “hieleras,” Spanish for “ice boxes” because they are so cold. Larger spaces with indoor fencing are referred to as “perreras” or “dog pounds.”
- https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-fbi-tap-his-phones-takes-stand-idUSKCN1P32BQ

Emphasis, mine.

 

[Fugazy]

I don't consider myself right wing or conservative in any way except maybe fiscal issues. That said, it seems like fresh faces the Dems are pushing really don't seem to care about what America was founded on or its principles. It seems like they want to change it into kind of socialist society and turn into a Sweden or Norway. Norway is a great country but it's not America.

America is unique in the world for what it stands for. I'm all for them trying to get money out of politics and being publicly funded but other than that, it feels like they want to change America into something it's not.

I could not agree with you more.

The more I see from them, the more I find myself redefining my political values and alliances.

I see myself looking to what the US was meant to be, and the way it came to be, and these people are trying to pull us further and further from that.

 

[Rod1]

Yes, it was based on census surveys and both parties used to agree that illegal immigration was a bad thing so they weren't exactly advertising their illegal status.

The old method didnt asked people if they were illegal, they estimated the amount of foreign born and compared it with several data that calculated how many legal immigrants were in the country and then it was substracted.

 

[nostradumbass]

The old method didnt asked people if they were illegal, they estimated the amount of foreign born and compared it with several data that calculated how many legal immigrants were in the country and then it was substracted.

And again, someone who crossed the border illegally is unlikely to answer the census honestly if at all, making the number from which the legal immigrants were subtracted much smaller, which again proves that most of those not counted were border crossings.

 

[Fugazy]

Which is why the whole wall business is just pandering to rubes. The border is pretty hard to cross illegaly already.

You are an idiot if you think the border is all that hard to cross.

I know business owners of large companies that had staff who were tied into organized crime in Mexico. When they needed a new cheap employee they would tell the guy to send them one of their "cousins" and voila, within a week there was a new Mexican or South American at work with 3 names.

Shit wasn't even a secret. Lol.

 

[nostradumbass]

Which is why the whole wall business is just pandering to rubes. The border is pretty hard to cross illegaly already.

So hard, in fact, that 46% of criminal deportations had already been deported at least once, some as many as 40 times and were still able to sneak back in every time without problem. They must be border evading masterminds.

https://cis.org/Revolving-Door

 

[Sano]

We don't even have a clear idea how many illegal aliens are in the US.

We don't know you say, after claiming that half was 20+ million and that visa overstays weren't a thing.

 

[Mr Holmes]

Except that's a lie
https://www.politifact.com/florida/...order-security-and-patrols-under-obama-previ/

Obama increased border patroling after Bush and continued the Secure Fencing Act that the Republican Senate and POTUS passed in 2006

The only lie is your notion that the problem was solved in 2006. What have Democrats done to solve the on going issue recently?

 

[Brodels]

What kind of bizarro world are you living in? Did you post the correct video? Everything she said was wrong and can easily be countered. And none of the correction s are worth typing since they've been said over and over and over again in this forum. She's a clueless moron and looks like a horse.

 

[Sano]

Yeah, I would imagine an estimate base on actual data would be more accurate than one very specific survey used to arrive at the previous low number that anybody living here knows isn't true.

And why does it mean that? There's not some law that dictates the visa overstays must maintain a consistent ratio with illegal border crossings. The difference between the previous guess and the one based on data would be nearly all illegal crossings since that who we didn't even know had come here, which is kind of the point of an immigration system.

Have the dems proposed anything to get rid of visa overstays, since according to you and them, that's a big problem?

Btw an important caveat. IF the Yale study estimating 20 million (which have many variables that simply cannot be verified as they themselves state) instead of the previously estimated 11 million based on surveys, is right, then that would mean that illegal immigrants commit 50% less crime than previously thought. They are already under the national level as it is.