International [NATO News] Putin: lifting Ukraine missile restrictions would "put NATO at war with Russia"

have you got an opinion on that if it were audited? im not trying to drag you into a fight but that whole thread has got me thinking about this issue a lot.

Aboriginal issues barely interest me. Im not really concerned about their plight. However if you are going to spend on an issue I'm fully in support of increased audits on current spending and ROI.
 
How did canada end up.in this thread and issues with their minority?
 
https://www.yahoo.com/news/erdogan-turkey-finland-sweden-nato-terrorist-organizations-152725529.html
Airplanes, tanks, SAM systems, small weapons, ships. India flies a few french fighters but other than that it's mostly MiGs and Sukhois. Their rifle is an AK variant. Their aircraft carrier is a Soviet one which they paid a couple billion for refurbishment.
Their main tanks are T-72 and T-90.
In other words, without Russia they would be defenseless.


they have a program to replace those, SAAB, F-16 are looking like the choices.



Tejas Mark 2 is gonna be a twin engine plane. they are getting replaced by IWI rifles and Sig 716. They are also building not 1 but 2 native designs of carriers currently.

They also bought p-8i's along with mq-9 repears. They are very slowly leaning more towards nato. Though they will likely keep a balance of soviet and nato equipment
 
Russia fumes as Finland and Sweden push for NATO membership
MAY 13, 2022 / 2:07 PM / CBS NEWS


Senior Russian officials have slammed Finland's decision to seek membership in the NATO alliance — which came as a direct reaction to President Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine. Finland's President Sauli Niinisto and Prime Minister Sanna Marin both said on Thursday that their country should apply to join the transatlantic military bloc "without delay."

Sweden's Foreign Minister Ann Linde said Friday that her country would follow suit without delay, arguing that "Swedish NATO membership would raise the threshold for military conflicts and thus have a conflict-preventing effect in northern Europe."

As Russian political analyst Fyodor Lukyanov said on his Telegram channel "Russia in Global Affairs," Finland joining NATO would increase Russia's land border with NATO member states by around 800 miles. Putin has repeatedly cited the eastward expansion of NATO — which he calls a threat to Russian security — as one of the primary reasons for launching his war in Ukraine.

Russia's Foreign Ministry quickly warned that if Finland was accepted into the alliance Moscow would be forced to respond, including with unspecified "military-technical" measures.

"Finland's accession to NATO will cause serious damage to bilateral Russian-Finnish relations and maintenance of stability and security in the Northern European region," the Foreign Ministry said. "Russia will be forced to take retaliatory steps, both of a military-technical and other nature, in order to neutralize the threats to its national security that arise from this."

On Friday, Putin assembled his Security Council, which includes his top intelligence chiefs and Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu, to discuss "the decisions of Finland and Sweden to join NATO and the resulting potential threats to Russia's security."

Moscow has not said exactly what steps it is prepared to take in response to a NATO expansion on its doorstep. But Russia's deputy ambassador to the United Nations, Dmitry Polyanskiy, said that if Sweden and Finland join the bloc, it would turn them from neutral into enemy countries overnight and their territories could become a "target" for Russia.

"They know that the moment they become members of NATO, it will imply certain mirror moves on the Russian side," Polyanskiy said in an interview with the online news outlet UnHerd. "If there are NATO detachments in those territories, these territories would become a target — or a possible target — for a strike."

"NATO is a very unfriendly bloc to us — it is an enemy, and NATO itself admitted that Russia is an enemy. It means that Finland and Sweden, all of a sudden, instead of neutral countries, become part of the enemy and they bear all the risks," Polyanskiy said.

Finland, with its long shared border with Russia, has historically maintained military neutrality. Its accession to NATO would signal a dramatic shift in the country's geopolitics.

Putin's stated goal in the Ukraine war of halting the alliance's expansion is being upended by Sweden and Finland's bids for membership and has conversely prompted NATO to bolster its military infrastructure across Eastern Europe, pushing previously neutral countries to take a tough stance on Moscow.

"Both in [Russia's] foreign and domestic policy, the outlook is negative. In general, one can expect that Russia will now continue its aggressive rhetoric. This will be a big militarization of the Baltic and Arctic," political analyst Kirill Shamiev said in an interview with the Russian language outlet Meduza.

"There will be an increase in the number and technical strengthening of the ground forces in the Leningrad region, in Karelia, and the potential deployment of nuclear weapons in Kaliningrad," Shamiev said, referring to far-western Russian territories.

"In domestic politics," Shamiev said, "the feeling of a surrounded fortress will intensify — that 'the Americans are even more encircling our country.'"

President Biden called the leaders of both Finland and Sweden on Friday. In a readout of the call, the White House said Mr. Biden "underscored his support for NATO's Open Door policy and for the right of Finland and Sweden to decide their own future, foreign policy, and security arrangements."



On Twitter, the Finnish president thanked Mr. Biden for "all the necessary support from the U.S." as his country heads for the "next steps towards NATO membership."

But the two countries' NATO aspirations do not guarantee membership. NATO requires unanimous approval by all 30 of its members for any new country to be welcomed into the fold.

Turkey is a NATO member, and its President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has tread a very cautious line during the Ukraine war, positioning himself as a mediator between Russia and the Western powers.

He said Friday that he did not have a "positive opinion" of the membership bids by Finland and Sweden.


https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/finland-nato-russia-sweden-ukraine-united-states-vladimir-putin/
 
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I'm having second thought about this. Solovjev says in Russian TV that without them Finland will run out of timber and all the people in Helsinki will have to live inside one huge bomb shelter 24/7, but even that will not help, because they have missiles capable of penetrating it.
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Some dude Morozov told that Poland too should be deNazified.
Now some mouthpieces are telling that EU is the same evil as NATO....
Russia ordered to do referendums clownade in separatist controlled areas.
In Georgia too.
Most likely they sooner or later will announce de naZification in Moldova.
 
I'm having second thought about this. Solovjev says in Russian TV that without them Finland will run out of timber and all the people in Helsinki will have to live inside one huge bomb shelter 24/7, but even that will not help, because they have missiles capable of penetrating it.
<6>

Well yea they do have bunker busters

Im more suprised our officers showed the shelter since thats not really info you want to share too much
 
Some dude Morozov told that Poland too should be deNazified.
Now some mouthpieces are telling that EU is the same evil as NATO....
Russia ordered to do referendums clownade in separatist controlled areas.
In Georgia too.
Most likely they sooner or later will announce de naZification in Moldova.
If they are lucky they could have an army capable of invading some European non-NATO country around 2050. Even that starts to seem optimistic.
 
I sincerely doubt any member nation will veto inclusion of either Sweden or Finland. Erdogan is a career grifter. He'll be contrarian in order to wrangle some concessions out of the nations involved. Like less US support for certain guerilla groups in and around eastern Turkey, that kind of stuff. Wouldn't be the first time Erdogan tries to hold his allies to ransom.

Ofcourse, no NATO conversation is complete without grifting Erdogan making it about himself.

Erdogan says Turkey not supportive of Finland, Sweden joining NATO
By Ece Toksabay and Essi Lehto | MAY 13, 2022

W55WWEAY4RPLDHVTJPYTPX6XEE.jpg


President Tayyip Erdogan said on Friday it was not possible for NATO-member Turkey to support plans by Sweden and Finland to join the pact given that the Nordic countries were "home to many terrorist organisations".

Though Turkey has officially supported NATO enlargement since it joined the U.S.-led alliance 70 years ago, its opposition could pose a problem for Sweden and Finland given new members need unanimous agreement.

Turkey has repeatedly slammed Sweden and other Western European countries for its handling of organisations deemed terrorist by Ankara, including the Kurdish militant groups PKK and YPG, and the followers of U.S.-based Islamic cleric Fethullah Gulen. Ankara says Gulenists carried out a coup attempt in 2016. Gulen and his supporters deny the accusation.

Finland's plan to apply for NATO membership, announced Thursday, and the expectation that Sweden will follow, would bring about the expansion of the Western military alliance that Russian President Vladimir Putin aimed to prevent by launching the invasion of Ukraine.

"We are following the developments regarding Sweden and Finland, but we don't hold positive views," Erdogan told reporters in Istanbul, adding it had been a mistake for NATO to accept Greece as a member in the past.

"As Turkey, we don't want to repeat similar mistakes. Furthermore, Scandinavian countries are guesthouses for terrorist organisations," Erdogan said, without giving details.

"They are even members of the parliament in some countries. It is not possible for us to be in favour," he added.

In response, Finnish Foreign Minister Pekka Haavisto urged patience and called for a step-by-step approach in response to Turkish resistance. read more He also said he was due to meet his Turkish counterpart in Berlin on Saturday. read more

Meanwhile, Sweden said it remained confident it could secure unanimous backing for any NATO application it could submit.

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg had said the Finns would be "warmly welcomed" and promised a "smooth and swift" accession process, which is also backed by Washington.

Aaron Stein, research director at the Foreign Policy Research Institute, said on Twitter with respect to Turkish opposition: "Turkish national security elites view Finland and Sweden as semi-hostile, given the presence of PKK and Gulenists. It's gonna take arm twisting to get sign-off."

NATO states that membership is open to any "European state in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to contribute to the security of the North Atlantic area".

Finland and Sweden are already NATO's closest partners, sitting in on many meetings, getting regularly briefed on the situation in Ukraine and taking part in regular military drills with NATO allies. Much of their military equipment is inter-operable with NATO allies.

However, they cannot benefit from NATO's collective defence clause - that an attack on one ally is an attack on all - until they join the alliance.

Moscow on Thursday called Finland's announcement hostile and threatened retaliation, including unspecified "military-technical" measures.

Turkey has criticised Russia's invasion, sent armed drones to Ukraine and sought to facilitate peace talks between the sides. But it has not backed Western sanctions on Moscow and seeks to maintain close trade, energy and tourism ties with Russia.

https://www.reuters.com/world/erdog...itive-finland-sweden-joining-nato-2022-05-13/
 
Well, in seperatist controlled area in Moldova they are sitting in weapons warehouse.
30 years.
~1500 " peacekeepers " from Russia and 5000-14000 these " separatists ". Sure with a lot of vodka.
At least thry might attempt to incorporate this area in Russia.
United Russia party and Zirinovski party are happy to approve such stuff and with extra vodka supplies referendum will be very successful.
 
Well, in seperatist controlled area in Moldova they are sitting in weapons warehouse.
30 years.
~1500 " peacekeepers " from Russia and 5000-14000 these " separatists ". Sure with a lot of vodka.
At least thry might attempt to incorporate this area in Russia.
United Russia party and Zirinovski party are happy to approve such stuff and with extra vodka supplies referendum will be very successful.
No more vodka for Zirinovski. :( Bigger shares for the rest of the party. :)
 
Interestingly how they in 1990-1992 th created this separatist region in Moldavia.
Transristria is with more russian speakers than rest of Moldavia part....
They had rumors...that Moldavia might be incorporated in.......Romania.
Absolutely total unrealistic bullshit; Romania then had so huge financial problems that in no case they had accepted to incorporate Moldavia ( Moldova ).
Romania then had other big problems; where to get next credits to avoid state treasury default and total collapse...
 
Sadly I today think about reality for example if Sweden and Finland had been in NATO and Russia had attacked...

It looks awful but this is possible ( sadly ) reality.
Turkey: most likely will sell (!) weapons quickly. Low chances to get their troops or airplanes.
Long talks...
Germany.
Tjey will with almost 0 doubts the same as they are doing now with Ukraine.
De facto totally useless country. They even provided considerably lower military equipment supplies than Estonia ( yeah, poor???, small estonia vs big Germnay.
France too, will be the same as with Germany.)
In form of long empty talks ofc will get the same as Ukraine.

Both: France and Germany are useless talkers....
.
Hungary: will be exactly the same as now is with Ukraine.
Only dreamers might hope anything else.

These 3 countries will better see you annexed than move little finger, don't be delusional about them.
France historically was special case and always.
They had sold nuclear reactor to Sadam and nuclear fuel too.


Other countries, there will be some who will help in few hours without too long talks.
 
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Ofcourse, no NATO conversation is complete without grifting Erdogan making it about himself.

Erdogan says Turkey not supportive of Finland, Sweden joining NATO
By Ece Toksabay and Essi Lehto | MAY 13, 2022

W55WWEAY4RPLDHVTJPYTPX6XEE.jpg




https://www.reuters.com/world/erdog...itive-finland-sweden-joining-nato-2022-05-13/

NATO just doesn't seem to have its shit together based on the reactions by the Croatian and Turkish president.

Seems like our politicians have been made fools of, once again, not understanding that they're dealing with backstabbing, conniving, lying pieces of shit, whenever they step outside our borders. Turkey was supposed to be "all for it".

Again, I just have to question the desire to join such a clearly dysfunctional organization.
 
NATO just doesn't seem to have its shit together based on the reactions by the Croatian and Turkish president.

Seems like our politicians have been made fools of, once again, not understanding that they're dealing with backstabbing, conniving, lying pieces of shit, whenever they step outside our borders. Turkey was supposed to be "all for it".

Again, I just have to question the desire to join such a clearly dysfunctional organization.

Always been a problem here that we are easy to fuck on political level
 
Niinistö called Putin, told we're joining. Putin said he was sad about it, said there are no threats towards Finland. Sounds like a nice fellow.
<JennieThumbsUp>
 
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