MW is now a stacked division...

[ixRanGzeNxi]

Was recently looking through the ufc MW division and it looks way more stacked than any other division. With several former champs and solid experienced contenders.

Alan Belcher - contender
Chris weidman - top contender
Cung Le - former SF champ
Hector lombard - former Bellator champ
Michael bisping - solid contender
Rich Franklin - former UFC champ
Tim Boetch - solid contender
Vitor Belfort - former champ


This is a solid group of talented fighters and i didnt add in wand or stann either.

One guy i would take out just cause he's not trying for the title is Cung Le. But he's still a good win for anyone going for a title.

Although i dont see any of these guys beating anderson, its just that silva is that good. If he wasnt there. The MW title would be changing hands like the LHW title did in the past.

I hope you're kidding/trolling. That's ridiculous!

LW: Barboza, Stout, Cerrone, Castillo, Pettis, Miller, Diaz (hate to admit it), Dos Anjos, Maynard, Zhang, etc. And that's STILL not including guys like Gomi (former Pride champ), Varner (former WEC champ), and tons more.

 

[Saskatoonmike**]

Really? I'm in no shape or form a GSP nuthugger. It's a common opinion that WW right is up there with LW as one of the most stacked divisions in UFC.

He is one of the biggest 'reaction' trolls when it comes to anything GSP. He says things he knows are absurdly stupid just to get GSP fans to react. Best to ignore him.

That same guy is now fighting for the LHW title. Go figure

If you want honest discussion then we can all admit that Sonnen/Vitor fighting for the LHW title has zero to do with those MW's being able to compete at LHW and thus the division being weak. it is 100% the UFC embracing the WWE aspect of chasing what they think will sell.

If our goal is to avoid honesty and just troll one another then by all means lets pretend that Sonnen/Vitor getting shots speaks to their quality as fighters being better then the current LHW crop and thus those guys being weaker.

 

[Saskatoonmike**]

That's because the MW didvision doesn't give title shots to fighters who lost their last fight, or fighters from the WW division who failed to get the title there.

lol. Anderson fans have been touting Bisping as the next most worthy MW for a long time.

Bisping is a fine fighter who would not rise above gatekeeper in any other division.

 

[DVN**]

add Munoz, Sonnen, Bisping, Stann, etc.

Fact is MW is really the only mature division in MMA where less then top 10 guys from the division above can drop and almost instantly become top 10 and main eve3nt fighters. You do not see that dynamic in any other division because guys who drop tend to do about the same or worse when they drop. If they were a mediocre, less then top 10 in the division above, they will be the same in the division below.

If i recall, hendo went to MW and lost to shields. Moved to LHW and beat shogun.

Just because a few guys dropped and did OK doesnt mean the division was weak.

Theres a reason why guys drop, to fight smaller guys to get an advantage.

The LHW to MW is the most common drop. Hence why people always wanted a 195lb division.

 

[Akira Yuki]

He is one of the biggest 'reaction' trolls when it comes to anything GSP. He says things he knows are absurdly stupid just to get GSP fans to react. Best to ignore him.

This is rich coming from you cuepee...

Tell me, how many times have you been banned now? And how many more times before you realize that you keep getting banned because most of the time, you're full of shit?

If you want honest discussion then we can all admit that Sonnen/Vitor fighting for the LHW title has zero to do with those MW's being able to compete at LHW and thus the division being weak. it is 100% the UFC embracing the WWE aspect of chasing what they think will sell.

Vitor and Belfort can compete at LHW as much as Diaz can compete at WW.

If our goal is to avoid honesty and just troll one another then by all means lets pretend that Sonnen/Vitor getting shots speaks to their quality as fighters being better then the current LHW crop and thus those guys being weaker.

If your goal wasn't just to troll all this time, then there's only one reason why you keep getting banned.

Want to take a guess about what that is?

 

[DVN**]

I hope you're kidding/trolling. That's ridiculous!

LW: Barboza, Stout, Cerrone, Castillo, Pettis, Miller, Diaz (hate to admit it), Dos Anjos, Maynard, Zhang, etc. And that's STILL not including guys like Gomi (former Pride champ), Varner (former WEC champ), and tons more.

Those lightweights u listed are decent. But overblown hype wise.

Stout? Varner? Gomi? Zhang? Wtf

How are those guys any better than lombard, belcher, bisping and okami?

 

[FlyThai**]

He is one of the biggest 'reaction' trolls when it comes to anything GSP. He says things he knows are absurdly stupid just to get GSP fans to react. Best to ignore him.



If you want honest discussion then we can all admit that Sonnen/Vitor fighting for the LHW title has zero to do with those MW's being able to compete at LHW and thus the division being weak. it is 100% the UFC embracing the WWE aspect of chasing what they think will sell.

If our goal is to avoid honesty and just troll one another then by all means lets pretend that Sonnen/Vitor getting shots speaks to their quality as fighters being better then the current LHW crop and thus those guys being weaker.

Are you still trying to argue that MW is weak. In 2012? Give it up CuePee. No matter how much you discredit Anderson it doesn't change that GSP will never surpass him

 

[Akira Yuki]

lol. Anderson fans have been touting Bisping as the next most worthy MW for a long time.

Bisping is a fine fighter who would not rise above gatekeeper in any other division.

The thing about the MW division is that if Bisping wins his next fight, he has proven that he's more than a gatekeeper, hence deserves the title shot.

As opposed to a division in which you can lose a fight and still get a title shot.

 

[DVN**]

Are you still trying to argue that MW is weak. In 2012? Give it up CuePee. No matter how much you discredit Anderson it doesn't change that GSP will never surpass him

Thank you.

You hear crap like MW weak just to discredit silva.

Truth is, he went to LHW and beat down 3 guys. With ease!

Everyone struggled with forrest at LHW. Silva destroyed him

 

[Saskatoonmike**]

These are the WW's OUTSIDE the top 10.

Nate Marquart
Erick Silva
Demian Maia
B.J. Penn
Tyron Woodley
Story
Sanchez
Stun Gun
Alves
Simpson
Ebersole
Patrick
Noke
Hathaway
Paulo Thiago

 

[Nova Q]

Belcher, boetch and franklin are not good?

Bisping is good too. He arguably beat sonnen, a guy who is fighting for the LHW title.

Silva beat dan henderson and chael sonnen out of the weight class. Yushin Okami is THE gatekeeper. Decent stand up and stiffling ground control.

Now you tell me what a stacked division and list some fighters, and i'll reply with a similar reply as yours.

Dont forget rockhold and jacare.

Belcher, Franklin, Boetsch, and Bisping are good fighters, but they aren't great fighters. None of them are elite in anything. Much of what makes a division deep is the amount of great, well-rounded fighters. These guys don't fit that mold.

Silva didn't beat Hendo out of the division. He went on to beat Bisping and Palharres, then went over to Strikeforce over a contract dispute and lost to Shields. After that he realized he had more energy at 205 and moved up permanently. Sonnen is a very flawed fighter who shouldn't have even done as well as he did at mw. With his awful striking and sub defense, he would have never gotten near a title-shot if he were in any other division (the lhw title shot he has now doesn't count, he didn't deserve it).

Lightweight is a stacked division:
Benson, Edgar, Maynard, Diaz, Guida, Cowboy, Pettis, Guillard, Miller, Lauzon, etc are all dangerous fighters who have elite abilities in one or more aspect of mma.

Welterweight is a stacked division:
GSP, Fitch, Hendricks, Ellenberger, Condit, Alves, Kos, Diaz, Kampmann, Maia, McDonald, etc are all well-rounded top fighters who have elite abilities in one or more aspects of mma.

Lightheavyweight is a stacked division:
Jones, Machida, Rashad, Shogun, Davis, Gus, Rampage, Glover, Bader, etc are all dangerous fighters who have elite abilities in one or more aspect of mma.

Guys like Belcher, Franklin, Boetsch, Bisping, Okami, Rockhold, and Munoz are not elite in anything. They are all slow and predictable. They come from the Forrest Griffin school of fighting -- that is, being decent in several aspects of mma but not excelling in anything enough to put the opponent in any real danger.

Outside of Anderson, Belfort, Lombard, and maybe Weidman, there are not that many notable fighters at mw. Face it, the division is just weak... always has been. It gets more washouts from the heavier division (in this case lhw) than any other weight class.

 

[Saskatoonmike**]

...
Vitor and Belfort can compete at LHW as much as Diaz can compete at WW.

...

Vitor and Sonnen almost certainly would not win any meaningful fights at LHW and earn a shot and that is why Dana will not let them try and ruin his hype fights. He knows that and their histories prove that.

If you need to convince yourself that is not the case then you can easily be ignored as someone who just has no interest in honest discussion on the topic.

The outside top 10 LHW's who drop down to MW and have so much success do so by beating other MW's and earning their way to the front of the line. The MW's who go up are not given a single fight because everyone knows they cannot win.

And wtf is your comment re Diaz about?

 

[CubicleGangster]

the only thing MW lacks is super stars/big names

 

[Saskatoonmike**]

Are you still trying to argue that MW is weak. In 2012? Give it up CuePee. No matter how much you discredit Anderson it doesn't change that GSP will never surpass him

I don't have to argue it as being weak. I can quote thread after thread and post after post of Anderson's biggest fans admitting it is weak.

The number 1 contender Weidman, is near can level according to them. Maia was always crap and over rated according to them. Munoz, near garbage level according to them. Boetsch also near garbage according to them.

anderson fans have not only discredited Weidman, Maia, Munoz and Boetsch but by extension everyone those guys beat as near garbage MW's should not be able to beat other top MW's unless those guys really are not that good either.

 

[moreorless87]

So if vitor and chael can get easy title shots at lhw, what does that say about the LHW division?

Just saying, We can twist and turn everything to make it seem a certain way.

MW is as tough if not tougher than LHW and WW.

It says that the UFC needed a replacement for Hendo quick and Machida/Shogun turned them down, it also says that Vitor and even moreso Sonnen are very popular fighters who make the UFC money, it doesnt say there werent better alternatives at 205.

The myth that LHW was so great was perpetuated by pride fans (i was one) shogun lost to forrest, wand lost to chuck. Rampage did ok for a bit but never much more than a title defense vs guess who? Hendo.

I'm not really seeing the logic behind this, one LHW beating another LHW prooves the division is weak? Rampage beating Hendo who has wins over multiple big name MW's(Vitor, Franklin, Bisping) prooves the division is weak?

If were talking "myths" then I think the #1 myth in recent years on Sherdog is the strenght of MW and its source is very easy to work out, Anderson fans who've bought into the GOAT hype have to believe he's been dominating a strong division.

Of course you get some rival fanboys making claims that MW is "full of cans" or other nonsense but I think my accessment is pretty objective, MW has alot of good fighters but is lacking in truely great fighters besides Silva. The reason for this is that LHW had tradisionally been the money division, this is a simple fact, up until Anderson vs Sonnen/Vitor MW really wasnt a division that drew massively. At LHW on the other hand alot of big matchs main event shows even if the belt isnt involved.

The result is alot of potential MW's give LHW a try first and the very best of them are sucessful and don't generally drop to 185, those who are less sucessful often do and have overally been much more sucessful there.

 

[FlyingHendo]

Chael Sonnen at 21-9, who couldn't even finish the ghost whisperer version of mental facilty case Paulo Filho joined the UFC and got pwned by Demian Maia. He then went on a TRT rampage and decisioned the fuck out of world-beaters like Dan Miller, Yushin Okami and Nate Marquardt. He then was branded the second best MW fighter in the UFC.

End of story. This speaks so much for itself.

 

[FlyThai**]

I don't have to argue it as being weak. I can quote thread after thread and post after post of Anderson's biggest fans admitting it is weak.

The number 1 contender Weidman, is near can level according to them. Maia was always crap and over rated according to them. Munoz, near garbage level according to them. Boetsch also near garbage according to them.

anderson fans have not only discredited Weidman, Maia, Munoz and Boetsch but by extension everyone those guys beat as near garbage MW's should not be able to beat other top MW's unless those guys really are not that good either.

This is the weakest arguement I ever read.

You are saying Silva fans are discrediting them? Where? Who?

 

[sp00k]

Yup i agree. Silva is just that good. I think jones did that to the LHW div. And GSP has done that to the WW div.

Im a huge silva fan, but in a way i kinda want to see him walk away so it opens a lot of stuff up for the MW division.

I just want silva to beat GSp then a retirement fight with jones. That would end the best career in MMA ever.

GSP doesn't "rip" through the division.. he snuggles and bitchslaps through the division

 

[DVN**]

I don't have to argue it as being weak. I can quote thread after thread and post after post of Anderson's biggest fans admitting it is weak.

The number 1 contender Weidman, is near can level according to them. Maia was always crap and over rated according to them. Munoz, near garbage level according to them. Boetsch also near garbage according to them.

anderson fans have not only discredited Weidman, Maia, Munoz and Boetsch but by extension everyone those guys beat as near garbage MW's should not be able to beat other top MW's unless those guys really are not that good either.

Those fans just dont want him wasting time fighting guys like weidman and boetch.

 

[ixRanGzeNxi]

Those lightweights u listed are decent. But overblown hype wise.

Stout? Varner? Gomi? Zhang? Wtf

How are those guys any better than lombard, belcher, bisping and okami?

Gomi and Varner are former champs. TS listed Le because he is former Strikeforce champ. One of his reasonings as to why MW is "way more stacked" than the rest is that it has former champs...

Stout and Zhang aren't the greatest examples of contenders in the LW division, but I don't wanna go through everything to find the right people. Not gonna invest that much time into proving facts. I'll believe that Sherdoggers have enough common sense/logic/knowledge to figure out what division really offers what. I still listed about as much or more than TS did off the top of my head, and he searched UFC roster to find his list. I like Lombard, but he is also riding a big hype train.