More fighters should tell the doctor/referee they can't continue after a severe eyepoke

[Hassan Mouzine]

I know everybody is dissapointed and alot of people put the blame on Aspinall but i totally dissagree.
It's the (non)enforcement of rules, fighters that get away with a foul (or multiple) it and fans that cheer on the fighter commiting the foul. Not the fault of the fighter that got poked.

Let's go back a couple of years.....remember the Petr Yan vs AljemainSterling title fight, the first one? Yan kneed a downed opponent (intentional or unintentional, who knows....impossible to prove, but a foul nonethelss) and got immediately disqualified and everybody shat on Sterling for not continuing and becoming a champion because of a DQ. YAN GOT DQ'D IMMEDIATELY FOR A FOUL.

Why do eyepokers get a pass? Some get multiple eyepokes in the same fight or round. That is ridiculous. Referees need to send a different message. You commit a fight ending or injury giving foul? Immediate point reduction and then start the 5 minute time out. Let every fighters that throws their fingers in the air, or takes other risks on fouls, know: you are down this round and we will see if the fighter can continue. The MMA community sucks. Everybody is shitting on Aspinall and Gane gets a pass. Aspinal didnt double eye poke Gane. So for me it would be perfectly logical if every fighter just tells the doctor they can't see and can't continue. No contest that shit if the referee is not willing to act on blatant fouls. Of course this is not for fouls like cage grabbing, glove grabbing and such, but mainly for eye pokes and kneeing/kicking a downed opponent.

Why whould Aspinall continue with his vision gone and pain in his eyes because of a foul while the referee hasnt even began doing anything to the person that commited the foul? Punish the other fighters first, let the injured fighter recover for 5 minutes. Send a message, because the message with eyepokes and knees to the downed opponent hasnt changed in decades.....it still seems like the no rules days or something.

 

[backlight]

 

[TOMFDJYEDH]

Careful, thats way too much of a sensible post for some people.

A reminder of the severity of the eye poke that some people are actually questioning btw, like it's definitely not possible this could cause some vision problems.

 

[irimiasz]

The MMA community’s attitude towards fouled fighters is basically rewarding the cheaters. It’s like saying ,,it’s totally OK to poke eyes and kick balls, if the fight ends is because of someone on the receiving end of it!”.

We should channel the negative energy towards fighters like Gane or Jones and not Aspinall who literally did nothing wrong. Also, referees should deduct points way more often and there should be no distinction between intentional and not - you poke someone in the eye, he can’t continue = immediate DQ.

 

[Kudo]

In real sports you get a penalty for breaking the rules, intentional or not.

 

[Gamer007]

If every fighter just quit and looked for a NC or DQ any chance they could get, most of us would just stop tuning in. The fans don't deserve to be punished just because the commissions and the UFC itself don't have a hard stance on fouls. The ref deemed the eye pokes unintentional, and Gane keeping his fingers upward with an open palm is LEGAL.

There's no easy fix, if you punish fouls heavily fighters will bait them or fake injury to win fights. Assuming Tom didn't get poked in his left eye, and we only had footage of the right eye. At one point is that considered a poke? If the fighter has his eye closed and there appears to be pressure on the eye from his opponents fingers, at what point is that a legitimate foul? Any time a finger touches an eyelid at any point that's a foul? Does it have to press into the eye socket to a specific extent? If I move my body into a nut shot, can I quit and go home with my paycheck? It will open up a whole other world of issues.


The UFC needs to adopt new gloves, but they aren't going to do that without extensive data that suggest the KO/TKO rate will become higher or remain the same. They also don't want to use gloves that a previous organization used, so it'd need to be something unique to their brand.

 

[Captain Herb]

I know everybody is dissapointed and alot of people put the blame on Aspinall but i totally dissagree.
It's the (non)enforcement of rules, fighters that get away with a foul (or multiple) it and fans that cheer on the fighter commiting the foul. Not the fault of the fighter that got poked.

Let's go back a couple of years.....remember the Petr Yan vs AljemainSterling title fight, the first one? Yan kneed a downed opponent (intentional or unintentional, who knows....impossible to prove, but a foul nonethelss) and got immediately disqualified and everybody shat on Sterling for not continuing and becoming a champion because of a DQ. YAN GOT DQ'D IMMEDIATELY FOR A FOUL.

Why do eyepokers get a pass? Some get multiple eyepokes in the same fight or round. That is ridiculous. Referees need to send a different message. You commit a fight ending or injury giving foul? Immediate point reduction and then start the 5 minute time out. Let every fighters that throws their fingers in the air, or takes other risks on fouls, know: you are down this round and we will see if the fighter can continue. The MMA community sucks. Everybody is shitting on Aspinall and Gane gets a pass. Aspinal didnt double eye poke Gane. So for me it would be perfectly logical if every fighter just tells the doctor they can't see and can't continue. No contest that shit if the referee is not willing to act on blatant fouls. Of course this is not for fouls like cage grabbing, glove grabbing and such, but mainly for eye pokes and kneeing/kicking a downed opponent.

Why whould Aspinall continue with his vision gone and pain in his eyes because of a foul while the referee hasnt even began doing anything to the person that commited the foul? Punish the other fighters first, let the injured fighter recover for 5 minutes. Send a message, because the message with eyepokes and knees to the downed opponent hasnt changed in decades.....it still seems like the no rules days or something.

exactly

 

[Captain Herb]

Gane keeping his fingers upward with an open palm is LEGAL.

It's legal until you feel your fingertips touching their eyeball and then shove them in, up to the first knuckle. Unintentional? No, the face rake afterwards gives away the intention.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

If every fighter just quit and looked for a NC or DQ any chance they could get, most of us would just stop tuning in. The fans don't deserve to be punished just because the commissions and the UFC itself don't have a hard stance on fouls. The ref deemed the eye pokes unintentional, and Gane keeping his fingers upward with an open palm is LEGAL.

There's no easy fix, if you punish fouls heavily fighters will bait them or fake injury to win fights. Assuming Tom didn't get poked in his left eye, and we only had footage of the right eye. At one point is that considered a poke? If the fighter has his eye closed and there appears to be pressure on the eye from his opponents fingers, at what point is that a legitimate foul? Any time a finger touches an eyelid at any point that's a foul? Does it have to press into the eye socket to a specific extent? If I move my body into a nut shot, can I quit and go home with my paycheck? It will open up a whole other world of issues.


The UFC needs to adopt new gloves, but they aren't going to do that without extensive data that suggest the KO/TKO rate will become higher or remain the same. They also don't want to use gloves that a previous organization used, so it'd need to be something unique to their brand.

They DID do new gloves, remember? Didn't do shit. More new gloves won't do shit either. The problem isn't the gloves, it's the fighters who eye poke constantly because they're not incentivized to change their behaviors

The point of this 'movement' isn't do that fighters start quitting more often, the real goal should be that commissions take the actions their supposed to and start deducting points. The whole reason a point should be deducted is to make up for the disadvantage that the fouled fighter would have to continue with. No deduction? Fine, then no continue. More deductions would mean fighters have a reason to continue and we don't even need to get into the 'milking injuries for a DQ' world everyone is afraid of.

 

[Alpha_T83]

100% agreed.

Almost every fight I've seen get a bad poke has admitted after the fight that they couldn't see properly after the poke. Fighting at a disadvantage after being fouled, especially with no point deduction, is just insane.

 

[Vanzanto]

I know everybody is dissapointed and alot of people put the blame on Aspinall but i totally dissagree.
It's the (non)enforcement of rules, fighters that get away with a foul (or multiple) it and fans that cheer on the fighter commiting the foul. Not the fault of the fighter that got poked.

Let's go back a couple of years.....remember the Petr Yan vs AljemainSterling title fight, the first one? Yan kneed a downed opponent (intentional or unintentional, who knows....impossible to prove, but a foul nonethelss) and got immediately disqualified and everybody shat on Sterling for not continuing and becoming a champion because of a DQ. YAN GOT DQ'D IMMEDIATELY FOR A FOUL.

Why do eyepokers get a pass? Some get multiple eyepokes in the same fight or round. That is ridiculous. Referees need to send a different message. You commit a fight ending or injury giving foul? Immediate point reduction and then start the 5 minute time out. Let every fighters that throws their fingers in the air, or takes other risks on fouls, know: you are down this round and we will see if the fighter can continue. The MMA community sucks. Everybody is shitting on Aspinall and Gane gets a pass. Aspinal didnt double eye poke Gane. So for me it would be perfectly logical if every fighter just tells the doctor they can't see and can't continue. No contest that shit if the referee is not willing to act on blatant fouls. Of course this is not for fouls like cage grabbing, glove grabbing and such, but mainly for eye pokes and kneeing/kicking a downed opponent.

Why whould Aspinall continue with his vision gone and pain in his eyes because of a foul while the referee hasnt even began doing anything to the person that commited the foul? Punish the other fighters first, let the injured fighter recover for 5 minutes. Send a message, because the message with eyepokes and knees to the downed opponent hasnt changed in decades.....it still seems like the no rules days or something.

The referees and the UFC really need to get serious about this issue. Any other contact sport on the planet, it is an instant send off.

Fighters need to learn to control their fingers. There is simply no reason to put your hand in an opponent's face other than to get contact with an opponent's eye,. if you can put your hand on an opponent's face, you can punch it.

If a fighter has his eye poked and video can prove that his eye was touched, it should be a dq. Intention should not matter.

 

[Alpha_T83]

If every fighter just quit and looked for a NC or DQ any chance they could get, most of us would just stop tuning in. The fans don't deserve to be punished just because the commissions and the UFC itself don't have a hard stance on fouls. The ref deemed the eye pokes unintentional, and Gane keeping his fingers upward with an open palm is LEGAL.

There's no easy fix, if you punish fouls heavily fighters will bait them or fake injury to win fights. Assuming Tom didn't get poked in his left eye, and we only had footage of the right eye. At one point is that considered a poke? If the fighter has his eye closed and there appears to be pressure on the eye from his opponents fingers, at what point is that a legitimate foul? Any time a finger touches an eyelid at any point that's a foul? Does it have to press into the eye socket to a specific extent? If I move my body into a nut shot, can I quit and go home with my paycheck? It will open up a whole other world of issues.


The UFC needs to adopt new gloves, but they aren't going to do that without extensive data that suggest the KO/TKO rate will become higher or remain the same. They also don't want to use gloves that a previous organization used, so it'd need to be something unique to their brand.

Very poor logic.

What would happen is the UFC would actually do something about the eye poke problem.

 

[Alpha_T83]

They DID do new gloves, remember? Didn't do shit. More new gloves won't do shit either. The problem isn't the gloves, it's the fighters who eye poke constantly because they're not incentivized to change their behaviors

The point of this 'movement' isn't do that fighters start quitting more often, the real goal should be that commissions take the actions their supposed to and start deducting points. The whole reason a point should be deducted is to make up for the disadvantage that the fouled fighter would have to continue with. No deduction? Fine, then no continue. More deductions would mean fighters have a reason to continue and we don't even need to get into the 'milking injuries for a DQ' world everyone is afraid of.

Exactly.

If more fighters start quitting after getting poked and refusing to fight at a disadvantage, the UFC will be forced to pressure commissions and refs to take mandatory points for eye pokes. And that in turn will force changes in behaviours, as you said.

 

[irimiasz]

The ref deemed the eye pokes unintentional, and Gane keeping his fingers upward with an open palm is LEGAL.

Here's the hot take - eye pokes should never be considered ,,unintentional", because they always require a very risky action which is moving an open palm into the direction of the opponent's face. That's what Jim Miller said - most UFC fighters just don't do this and that's why they never have this issue. And then you have some - Jones or Gane for example - who make it intentionally a part of their game because they know that the risk of DQ is so low - the worst they may get is NC and rematch, and most of the times it's just a warning and opponent having to fight with a disadvantage. It's basically exploiting the rules and without new gloves it won't stop until the referees start taking it more seriously. Like - one point at first foul, two points or DQ at the second.

Groin shots are different, because unfortunate opponent's move may result in the liver kick being shot in the balls, and kicks are a crucial part of MMA game - extending open palm in the direction of the opponent's face is not.

 

[Gamer007]

It's legal until you feel your fingertips touching their eyeball and then shove them in, up to the first knuckle. Unintentional? No, the face rake afterwards gives away the intention.

The ref had the ability to make that determination but he didn't, he said the poke was unintentional. We have fans trying to determine intent from slowed down video footage when none of us know what Gane was thinking in that moment.

 

[Thy]

Probably and also make it dq loss for pokers and even fine them perhaps to get people to actively try to not have their fingers extended. But i doubt anything will happen.

 

[Thy]

The ref had the ability to make that determination but he didn't, he said the poke was unintentional. We have fans trying to determine intent from slowed down video footage when none of us know what Gane was thinking in that moment.

The whole sequence in normal time just looked goofy. Gane does some pretty goofy stuff in general. But there's plenty of vid on him ignoring rules in many fights and doing goofy stuff.

 

[Captain Herb]

The ref had the ability to make that determination but he didn't, he said the poke was unintentional. We have fans trying to determine intent from slowed down video footage when none of us know what Gane was thinking in that moment.

That's right. "Don't believe your lying eyes". The video shows clear intent. Watch the hi-def slo-mo. He initially has his fingers up but then suddenly straightens them out and stabs towards the eyes. When he feels the eyeballs, he pushes them in to the first knuckle. He rakes the face on exit. Clearly intentional.

 

[ShadowRun]

He was acting saturday night too

 

[Gamer007]

They DID do new gloves, remember? Didn't do shit. More new gloves won't do shit either. The problem isn't the gloves, it's the fighters who eye poke constantly because they're not incentivized to change their behaviors

The point of this 'movement' isn't do that fighters start quitting more often, the real goal should be that commissions take the actions their supposed to and start deducting points. The whole reason a point should be deducted is to make up for the disadvantage that the fouled fighter would have to continue with. No deduction? Fine, then no continue. More deductions would mean fighters have a reason to continue and we don't even need to get into the 'milking injuries for a DQ' world everyone is afraid of.

So because their first half assed interation of new gloves didn't work we never change them to help fix the issue? The original intent of the new gloves were to help reduce eye pokes, it was a failure mainly because the fighters didn't prefer them over the old ones. Only makes sense to continue improving on the design if it can help save events from disaster.

The issue isn't just milking injuries for a DQ, fighters will just do the same to win a fight via point deductions. You touch their eye lid and they can say their vision is impaired, you kick them near the cup and now you lose a point?