Money aside, what is wrong with Trump's wall?

[Rod1]

and if illegals fill out I-9's then what?

https://www.uscis.gov/es/e-verify

 

[chardog]

1.- You can jump a wall

2.- Surveillance allows people to catch individuals better than an undefended wall. What do you think its a better deterrent to having your property breached? an extra lock or a security guard?

a wall doesnt preclude surveillance.....

in fact a wall would mean less surveillance.

 

[Rod1]

I'm pretty sure Clippy is a Canadian anyway. So wall or not they won't be taking his job

I have a worker who is part of a temporary worker program to pick up carrots for 3 months in Canada every year. Mexicans steal every job in north america.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

1.- You can jump a wall

2.- Surveillance allows people to catch individuals better than an undefended wall. What do you think its a better deterrent to having your property breached? an extra lock or a security guard?

1. Trump's wall will be as high as 55 feet. If you don't think that's a deterrence, at the least, you're insane. That's a 5 story wall.
2. A wall keeps people from having to be caught.

 

[chardog]

https://www.uscis.gov/es/e-verify

it's up to the government to determine if I-9 is defacto vs e-verify. The government can simply make e-verify defacto, but employers dont make that call.

if an employer provides an I-9, they did their part.

 

[Rational Poster]

I'm a Brit with no dog in the US electoral fight and Trump does seem to be a bit of a loon from where I'm standing but I was arguing with someone recently about immigration and they chipped in with "oh right well maybe we should build a wall like Trump wants to". And I had me thinking - other than it not being financially viable, what is actually wrong with having a wall to separate a border exactly?

I've had videos on Facebook posted at me likening it to the Berlin wall and the Israeli one but seems to me that various countries have borders, fences, border patrols and so on?

What is inherently wrong or inhumane about such a thing?

You can't say money aside, when the cost is extreme. The cost is the issue since the problem it's trying to solve is not as big as the cost of the damn thing. We've had net zero immigration, legal/illegal, across the Mexican border for about 9 years now. It's a pandering argument for low intelligence voters.

We're talking about a concrete wall between 1000-2000 miles in length depending how secure you want it to be, several feet thick, and going several feet underground. I believe the entire border is about 1900 miles long.

In short, this would be the largest civil project in the history of the United States aside from the interstate system. The wall would take between 2-3x the amount of concrete require to make the Hoover Dam and several million tons of steel rebar, not to mention the cost of upkeep, maintenance, and patrols.

All this cost for absolutely economic no benefit like the Hoover Dam and interstate provided.

This also doesn't consider all the infrastructure that would be required to bring supplies to the wall or the economic impact on the rest of the world by funneling all these materials into an essentially useless project.

 

[Rod1]

1. Trump's wall will be as high as 55 feet. If you don't think that's a deterrence, at the least, you're insane. That's a 5 story wall.
2. A wall keeps people from having to be caught.

1.- That depends, everytime ex-president Fox opens his mouth its 10 feet higher, so we will have to wait until he builds it maybe it ends up being 300 feet higher since Fox is probably senile by now.

2.- Actually it doesnt.

 

[Mark Hunts FIST]

the great wall didn't work. when you have border guards who would be making 40k a year, how difficult would they be to bribe? with a 12 foot fence how many 13 foot ladders will be built?

and let me start this shit storm........where will we get our cheap labor from? we have sweet potato farms and chicken processing plants in the area where i live. guess how many "native" americans apply to work at those places......

we need more seasonal workers and more work visas and more enforcement when people overstay their work visa.

 

[panamaican]

Or give 10 years in prison to anyone found hiring illegals, that will be cheaper and you dont care about affecting Americans, so problem solved with a much cheaper alternative.

Sure but that's irrelevant to the wall itself. And, again, that's about what happens after entry.

You have 2 different problems: illegal entry and activities involving those who have entered illegally. Fining business owners addresses activities involving those who are in the country illegally. It doesn't address entry.

A wall addresses one specific aspect of illegal entry.

Before you go to things like overstayed visas...that's not illegal entry. That's legal entry followed by illegally violating the terms of that entry.

Illegal entry by air would mean illegally boarding the flight and then sneaking through the airport. Or using a fake document to gain entry. Obviously, a wall doesn't address those types of crimes. But people seem unwilling to limit the discussion of a wall to the specific type of crime the wall is intended to address and instead criticize the wall as not addressing every aspect of illegal immigration.

 

[oldshadow]

Have you ever been to the border?

Yes more then a few times, mostly many years ago.

In fact I spent a bit of time in Nuevo Laredo and parts around there.

 

[Rod1]

it's up to the government to determine if I-9 is defacto vs e-verify. The government can simply make e-verify defacto, but employers dont make that call.

if an employer provides an I-9, they did their part.

So? make E-verify obligatory for every single work contract and then slap 10-15 federal minimum sentencing for those caught violating it. Cheaper than a wall, and if some people go to jail, well they should had known better.

 

[Handsomebwonderfull]

Makes a claim and expects others to find a source. Ya, those stats are BS.

Man am I tired of this style of argumentation.
Make a claim, post a fucking source and don't give others homework.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...os/ramos-40-undocumented-immigrants-come-air/

I literally spent 10 seconds to dig up the article

40% of illegal immigrants arrive by air. A lot over stay their visas. 27-33% of Mexicans do the same thing.

You know what I'm tired of? Fucking retards talking about shit they don't know. Then when someone gives them the basic numbers they scream source like a bunch of little b*tchss rather than spend 10 minutes to educate themselves.

The wall is a stupid fucking idea and you should be embarrassed to think it is a good idea

 

[Rod1]

Sure but that's irrelevant to the wall itself. And, again, that's about what happens after entry.

You have 2 different problems: illegal entry and activities involving those who have entered illegally. Fining business owners addresses activities involving those who are in the country illegally. It doesn't address entry.

A wall addresses one specific aspect of illegal entry.

Before you go to things like overstayed visas...that's not illegal entry. That's legal entry followed by illegally violating the terms of that entry.

Illegal entry by air would mean illegally boarding the flight and then sneaking through the airport. Or using a fake document to gain entry. Obviously, a wall doesn't address those types of crimes. But people seem unwilling to limit the discussion of a wall to the specific type of crime the wall is intended to address and instead criticize the wall as not addressing every aspect of illegal immigration.

Illegal entry through the US-Mexico border has 2 causes, drugs and illegal workers, eliminate jobs and illegal drugs and you fix both of them.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

1.- That depends, everytime ex-president Fox opens his mouth its 10 feet higher, so we will have to wait until he builds it maybe it ends up being 300 feet higher since Fox is probably senile by now.

2.- Actually it doesnt.

1. You're right. My bad, we don't know how tall the wall will be. But this renders your argument about jumping the wall null as much as mine about how tall it will be. You can't say "you can jump a wall" as though it's nothing special if you don't know how tall the wall will be.
2. Actually, it does. This is a retarded way to make an argument.

 

[Rod1]

Yes more then a few times, mostly many years ago.

In fact I spent a bit of time in Nuevo Laredo and parts around there.

Where you do think the wall will be built in that border? on top of the river or cutting through Laredo?

 

[Rod1]

1. You're right. My bad, we don't know how tall the wall will be. But this renders your argument about jumping the wall null as much as mine about how tall it will be. You can't say "you can jump a wall" as though it's nothing special if you don't know how tall the wall will be.
2. Actually, it does. This is a retarded way to make an argument.

1.- Sure it could be like the wall on game of thrones then we would have the mexicanlings climbing it.

2.- A wall without surveillance is useless just ask the Chinese.

 

[oldshadow]

Illegal entry through the US-Mexico border has 2 causes, drugs and illegal workers, eliminate jobs and illegal drugs and you fix both of them.

You can reduce the jobs by fining companies that knowing hire illegals but that doesn't prevent them getting false ID and getting hired which you can't blame the company for. Also there is the under the table work and other benefits in coming here including anchor babies. I'm all for fining the hell out of anyone knowing hiring an illegal.

Some drugs should be decimalized but the dealers should not be, just simple possession.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Because the left are idealists and not realists. They believe walls represent divisiveness and that the progressive thing to do is to tear down walls so that all cultures can live together in harmony holding hands. They are naive children, unfortunately a lot of them never grow out of it.

It is one thing for a 21 year old college child to naively believe communism and human nature are good, but it is another level of pathetic to hear anybody over 30 still speak like they are a naive 21 year old college child.

 

[chardog]

So? make E-verify obligatory for every single work contract and then slap 10-15 federal minimum sentencing for those caught violating it. Cheaper than a wall, and if some people go to jail, well they should had known better.

well obama's been in power for a while now, why dont you complain about why it's not standard practice?

The idea that employers are the ones that should handle immigration is a failed response from liberals everytime. Why arent you complaining about obama not making it standard practice? In my line of work, I can hire tons of mexicans, some even BORN in america, full adult, and hardly speak any english. Am I suppose to discriminate the guy and accuse him of being an illegal? How the heck should I know if he's illegal or not?

fill out an I-9, I'm not an immigration officer, I did my job.

as for putting people in federal prison for hiring illegals. Good luck putting the poor middle class dude that picked up some guy from home depot to help with his lawn. That'll go really well. Lock him up for 10 years, the sentence fits the crime.

 

[oldshadow]

Where you do think the wall will be built in that border? on top of the river or cutting through Laredo?

Wherever it needs to be as long as it's on our side. You buy the land and move the people just like happens with the government both state and federal every day.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...os/ramos-40-undocumented-immigrants-come-air/

I literally spent 10 seconds to dig up the article

Then do it the first time you post a claim.
It's standard internet courtesy. Don't give others homework like you're some professor. Assert something, post a source; don't complain when others call you on your bullshit or say how easy it was. If it's easy, post it in the first place.