Money aside, what is wrong with Trump's wall?

[Rod1]

you understand that building a wall is fairly inexpensive compared to housing illegal immigrants right?

you dont care that illegal immigrants are a net loss to the nation in the sum of ~100 billion yearly, but an inexpensive wall you care about?

if you're worried about the wall being too expensive, hire illegal immigrants to build it, we have no shortage. Brick and mortar is relatively cheap building material. Steal from the highway budget, make it happen. At worst, the wall instills confidence that america is at least willing to look at the illegal immigration problem. Surveilance costs would go down with a nice wall.

There's much bigger fish to fry than an inexpensive wall, liberals like you just want open borders and mexicans that will vote for your team. You simply dont care about the economic burden since you're also on welfare and want it expanded.

Non-sequitur.

 

[JonnyRingo84]

the great wall didn't work. when you have border guards who would be making 40k a year, how difficult would they be to bribe? with a 12 foot fence how many 13 foot ladders will be built?

and let me start this shit storm........where will we get our cheap labor from? we have sweet potato farms and chicken processing plants in the area where i live. guess how many "native" americans apply to work at those places......

 

[jefferz]

I think we should build a moat too in case they get over the wall, filled with sharks and crocodiles, maybe a mine field after that.

If anyone makes it through all that then fuck it, they deserve to be let in.

Couldn't you just throw a match in the Rio Grande and have a fire wall.

 

[Last Samurai]

great wall of trump, I like that

of course, who doesn't

and once completed the great wall of Trump will be just as crucial for border defense as it is in modern day china

 

[kpt018]

the great wall didn't work. when you have border guards who would be making 40k a year, how difficult would they be to bribe? with a 12 foot fence how many 13 foot ladders will be built?

and let me start this shit storm........where will we get our cheap labor from? we have sweet potato farms and chicken processing plants in the area where i live. guess how many "native" americans apply to work at those places......

This. Immigration from Mexico is a net positive, so we are solving a problem we don't have by building a wall (with a method that probably wouldn't work).

 

[panamaican]

In my analogy shoplifting was illegal entry you guys changed the analogy.

And no its not the same as breaking and entering because you normally dont have tons of strangers entering your house during the day. While the US Mexico border procesess over a million people a day and near 2 billion worth of trade.

Of course shit is going to slip through the cracks when you have such a bulk of trade and human movement.

Thats why comparisons with militarized borders are a joke, these borders are completely closed, so its easier to block, if the US and Mexico were enemies, then yes, create a 30 mile buffer zone and mine it.

I changed the analogy because it was wrong. Shoplifting is when someone takes something and leaves without paying. It doesn't address how the thief entered the store, only what they did after gaining entry (entry could have been perfectly legal - it's the theft that's a crime). Breaking and entering is when someone enters the store without permission from the owner.

So, a store owner can grant permission to enter his store to plenty of customers via the front door but if someone goes around to the back of the store and forces the lock then they've committed the crime of breaking and entering, even though the store itself is open and servicing customers at the same moment.

Your analogy is wrong because the crime you used, shoplifting, isn't analogous to the crime being discussed, illegal entry.

 

[IIIIIIII]

Because when it comes to Trump's immigration plan you can't just put the money issue aside. It would be a stunning waste of funds that wouldn't really accomplish anything. Like many of Trumps ideas, building a wall isn't a solution at all, but it sounds tuff. To his base, that's enough. To the rest of us, it's fucking retarded.

agreed. trump is appealing to the anger of certain americans, who only want to be told what they want to hear. just like obama's bullshit, "hope" slogan, we saw what that amounted to. it's going to be the same if trump is elected. he is in this race FOR HIMSELF. he could not give two shits about joe-blow in bumfuck montana. and the fact that so many are either unaware or blissfully-ignorant about it, is more frustrating than surprising, i suppose.

 

[Islam Imamate]

This was the comment I agreed with:



Their world view and ideology is what makes them naive children not questioning the worthiness, or effectiveness, of the wall.

You nodded your head in agreement with a poster attacking a strawman. Almost every rebuttal I've heard to the wall by anyone significant person includes the "40% of illegals overstay their visas" which is not some statement calling for a borderless world but a fact used to question the effectiveness of the wall.

 

[JonnyRingo84]

This. Immigration from Mexico is a net positive, so we are solving a problem we don't have by building a wall (with a method that probably wouldn't work).

historically our immigration has always been a positive economically, and its always been greeted with outrage lol. the irish literally built manhattan. the chinese built our railraods. they brought lots of good food too....well maybe not the irish.

 

[panamaican]

The biggest issue would be the disruption of people who live next to the border which are mexican and american farmers and ranchers, the other issue would be the ecological cost to the enviroment as several animals cross the border everyday.

Also the fact that you will be limiting Americans access to the Bravo river.

As to the 1st one, it would only affect the America farmers because the wall would be on American soil and, per my usual response, so what if they're affected? Everything new disrupts something old so what type of disruption are we envisioning here so that I can put it into context against the larger point about illegal entry.

My response the last time someone mentioned ecological costs is that we impact the environment every time we build a road, a city, a harbor, etc. Several animals will lose the ability to cross the border...so what? Will this lead to an extinction event? Is there a specific impact on reproduction that's out there? Just listing that things will be affected doesn't tell me if those effects are any more negative than any other public works project we undertake without batting an eyelash.

And how would we be limiting access to the Rio Bravo. This one I know nothing about.

 

[Islam Imamate]

and let me start this shit storm........where will we get our cheap labor from? we have sweet potato farms and chicken processing plants in the area where i live. guess how many "native" americans apply to work at those places......

So because people don't want to work for slave wages performing back breaking labor its just better to allow illegal immigrants to reduce everyone's wages by illegally undercutting the legal American citizen.

Wow I'm convinced now.

Btw I live near some U-pick farms where people pay to pick their own fruits and vegetables because its fresh and locally grown. Who do I see there? Mostly white people. Sometimes they're old people, sometimes they're families with little kids, sometimes they're young couples.

That's different from working 8hrs a day and not getting to take the vegetables home but the point is with the proper incentives American citizens will do the work. But I guess you rather save a little on your grocery bill even if that means the people who pick your fruits and process your meat undercut blue collar Americans while also being subjected to horrible working conditions and being paid barely enough to survive.

 

[Rod1]

I changed the analogy because it was wrong. Shoplifting is when someone takes something and leaves without paying. It doesn't address how the thief entered the store, only what they did after gaining entry (entry could have been perfectly legal - it's the theft that's a crime). Breaking and entering is when someone enters the store without permission from the owner.

So, a store owner can grant permission to enter his store to plenty of customers via the front door but if someone goes around to the back of the store and forces the lock then they've committed the crime of breaking and entering, even though the store itself is open and servicing customers at the same moment.

Your analogy is wrong because the crime you used, shoplifting, isn't analogous to the crime being discussed, illegal entry.

Actually the analogy is correct because im not comparing the nature of the crime, but the fact that the crime is a minority aspect of a more broad legal activity.

Someone saying close the border is not the same as saying close the border to illegal entries, closing the border means closing the border to all kind of movement, including legal one.

So when someone says close the border because a tiny minority of crossings are illegal in nature, is the same as saying close the store because a tiny minority of customers are stealing.

You trying to draw a different analogy with breaking an entering is false, because all breaking and entering is illegal, therefore its easier to put bars on the windows without any problem whatsoever. Putting bars in windows doesnt stops your ability to sell things in your store.

 

[7437]

Good point. Mexicans just shouldn't be allowed in, period.

Better revoke a bunch of mexican looking people's citizenship too.

 

[Rod1]

As to the 1st one, it would only affect the America farmers because the wall would be on American soil and, per my usual response, so what if they're affected? Everything new disrupts something old so what type of disruption are we envisioning here so that I can put it into context against the larger point about illegal entry.

My response the last time someone mentioned ecological costs is that we impact the environment every time we build a road, a city, a harbor, etc. Several animals will lose the ability to cross the border...so what? Will this lead to an extinction event? Is there a specific impact on reproduction that's out there? Just listing that things will be affected doesn't tell me if those effects are any more negative than any other public works project we undertake without batting an eyelash.

And how would we be limiting access to the Rio Bravo. This one I know nothing about.

Or give 10 years in prison to anyone found hiring illegals, that will be cheaper and you dont care about affecting Americans, so problem solved with a much cheaper alternative.

 

[chardog]

the great wall didn't work. when you have border guards who would be making 40k a year, how difficult would they be to bribe? with a 12 foot fence how many 13 foot ladders will be built?

and let me start this shit storm........where will we get our cheap labor from? we have sweet potato farms and chicken processing plants in the area where i live. guess how many "native" americans apply to work at those places......

saying the great wall of china didnt work is like saying the wall in your backyard doesnt protect from thieves. It served a purpose. Anyhow, there was already talk of two walls, and that would pretty much kill the 13 foot ladder ordeal, and aside from that, who wants to scale a 12' wall without a ladder on the other side? You risk serious injury from a 12' wall as is, and osha regulations say that you need to be 3' above the landing, so that makes it a 15' ladder

need cheap labor? Kill off welfare and you'll have cheap labor. Collectively raise prices on food, americans are fat enough, they can handle a little less portions.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

You think the US Mexico border doesnt has walls? the heck most of it has a big river on it.

You can't swim across a wall.

In the age of electronic surveillance people think of walls simply because its symbolic.

The problem with the US-Mexico border is not a wall is lack of surveillance.

Surveillance allows you to watch people coming in, but it doesn't bar entry.

There are cameras on my street, but that doesn't mean I don't want a wall around my house.

 

[chardog]

Or give 10 years in prison to anyone found hiring illegals, that will be cheaper and you dont care about affecting Americans, so problem solved with a much cheaper alternative.

and if illegals fill out I-9's then what?

 

[Rod1]

You can't swim across a wall.


Surveillance allows you to watch people coming in, but it doesn't bar entry.

There are cameras on my street, but that doesn't mean I don't want a wall around my house.

1.- You can jump a wall

2.- Surveillance allows people to catch individuals better than an undefended wall. What do you think its a better deterrent to having your property breached? an extra lock or a security guard?

 

[Steve-French]

LOL, they are taking your jobs. That's what the whole illegal immigration thing has been about from the beginning. Driving down American working wages and increasing profits for rich people and massive corporations. You know, the kinds of people that Leftists claim to be against. It also has been and always will be about breaking American Unions. You know, the kinds of people that Leftists claim to be for that got them elected in the first place. Other than all that ignorant, snarky Liberalism, great post man.....

I'm pretty sure Clippy is a Canadian anyway. So wall or not they won't be taking his job

 

[chardog]

historically our immigration has always been a positive economically, and its always been greeted with outrage lol. the irish literally built manhattan. the chinese built our railraods. they brought lots of good food too....well maybe not the irish.

sorry, mexico and the irish have a completely different relationship with america, you cant compare the two. Mexican LEGAL immigration is already the highest among all countries FFS, why do they get a border that they can cross on top of that?