Mir's all time status?

Fedor
Nogueira
Cro Cop
Couture
Barnett
Mir
 
Nelly said:
On top of my head, and in no particular order, the top 10 would be Fedor, Big Nog, Cro Cop, Mir, Couture, JDS, Cain, AA, Sylvia, and last spot I'm not sure, maybe Barnett or Coleman.
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Yeah pretty good, cant really fault.

I can't wait for people claiming Reem should be in there though.

The people not including big Timmy are delusional also. You may not like him, but he did what he did.
 
top 10 maybe. but HWs are the most storied fighters of all time. its hard to compete with gguys like fedor, nog, crocop, couture. mir would probably be eclipsed in a few short years too.
 
First wanted to say "borderline top 10 HW GOAT" but then I thought about it:
He beat Nog (who is definitely considered top 5 HW GOAT) twice.
He is 1-1 against Brock (whom many see as top 3 UFC HW GOAT).
He beat CroCop (Pride top 3).

So except Fedor there is noone really clearly ahead of him in the HW GOAT discussion he has wins against all those guys one would see top 5 HW GOAT (Brock, Crocop, Nog). But he has some weird losses as well.

So I'd say top 5 HW GOAT or - at leat - top 10 HW GOAT. We will have to see where Cain and JDS end up.
 
Hall Of Famer And former TWO Times UFC HW....

The last time doing it after a career ending motorcycle accident...
 
BaliShagSmoke said:
No confusion from me about that. I should have explained that when I say GOAT discussion, I am saying Greatest of All Time, Top 5.

So really, in hindsight, I shouldn't have said anything about Mir/Nog/Fedor/Cro Cop and just stuck to my main point that since Mir is a fringe Top 5 or Top 10 all time HW (depending on who is judging him), it would be better to wait until JDS and Cain's careers have ended to make any judgement.

Bottom line, I am not a Frank hater. I actually enjoy his fights, pre-fight confidence, and intelligent commentating. I just think that he will be eclipsed by JDS/Cain and then as the sport gets older, he will drop out of all time lists completely.
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on the basis of waiting out Cain and JDS career, then we can also wait out every prospective HW that looks solid so far like DC.


What I'm saying is, as things currently are, where does Frank Mir rank as an all time HW?

I agree JDS and Cain have a lot left in their careers, I'm just saying for at the moment, where does Frank fit all time?

It just seems hard not to put him top 10 due to his big wins and a long time top 10 mainstay.

At the most, I can understand arguments that put him at like an 8 or 12 or something around there.



The outliers in this unofficial poll are kinda out there.


Mir inserts himself in an all time great status because 2 members of the top 5 HW all time list, Mir beat decisively, including one of them twice in devastating fashion.
 
Are some of you guys asleep putting Mir ahead of Werdum so easily?? In Werdum's last 6 fights he has wins over:

Fedor (the first loss)
Nog
BF Silva
Nelson
Russow

Over his career? Notable wins?

Fedor
Nog
Overeem
BF Silva
Alex Emelienenko
Gonzaga x2
Vera (when he was still Vera)
Erickson
Nelson
Zentsov
Russow
Kyle
Einemo

Worst losses?

Decision (close) loss to Arlovski where they just boxed?

Split decision vs Sergei?

If you have Mir ahead of Werdum in this thread, make these two lists for Mir and then make a case for Mir being ahead.. I'll wait.

Fabricio Werdum, 17-5

http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Fabricio-Werdum-8390

Frank Mir, 16-8

http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Frank-Mir-2329
 
Driven said:
on the basis of waiting out Cain and JDS career, then we can also wait out every prospective HW that looks solid so far like DC.


What I'm saying is, as things currently are, where does Frank Mir rank as an all time HW?

I agree JDS and Cain have a lot left in their careers, I'm just saying for at the moment, where does Frank fit all time?

It just seems hard not to put him top 10 due to his big wins and a long time top 10 mainstay.

At the most, I can understand arguments that put him at like an 8 or 12 or something around there.



The outliers in this unofficial poll are kinda out there.


Mir inserts himself in an all time great status because 2 members of the top 5 HW all time list, Mir beat decisively, including one of them twice in devastating fashion.
Click to expand...

See WERDUM
 
He will be remembered when he's cut after his next fight.
 
A have him 4th all time behind Cain, JDS and Carwin.
 
I think he is totally overrated and pretty mediocre in the grand scheme of things.....
 
Top 5 in my book. The devastating submissions seal it for me.
edit: any man who can sub Big Nog has my respect.
 
georgwilhelm said:
First wanted to say "borderline top 10 HW GOAT" but then I thought about it:
He beat Nog (who is definitely considered top 5 HW GOAT) twice.
He is 1-1 against Brock (whom many see as top 3 UFC HW GOAT).
He beat CroCop (Pride top 3).

So except Fedor there is noone really clearly ahead of him in the HW GOAT discussion he has wins against all those guys one would see top 5 HW GOAT (Brock, Crocop, Nog). But he has some weird losses as well.

So I'd say top 5 HW GOAT or - at leat - top 10 HW GOAT. We will have to see where Cain and JDS end up.
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Crocop and Nog (minus submitting Nog once, that was impressive) are not very impressive wins at this point, and Brock is mediocre. But HW has always been an awful divsion, so Mir might be at the top somewhere.
 
He's one bad Mofo who like to break limbs .
Top 5 of all time at HW for sure .
 
Driven said:
on the basis of waiting out Cain and JDS career, then we can also wait out every prospective HW that looks solid so far like DC.


What I'm saying is, as things currently are, where does Frank Mir rank as an all time HW?

I agree JDS and Cain have a lot left in their careers, I'm just saying for at the moment, where does Frank fit all time?

It just seems hard not to put him top 10 due to his big wins and a long time top 10 mainstay.

At the most, I can understand arguments that put him at like an 8 or 12 or something around there.



The outliers in this unofficial poll are kinda out there.


Mir inserts himself in an all time great status because 2 members of the top 5 HW all time list, Mir beat decisively, including one of them twice in devastating fashion.
Click to expand...

Your first point - absolutely. No one should be talking about DC or any fighter at the same point in their careers.

Your last point is a pretty shallow justification for Mir. No one can take anything away from the Nog win. It's the Cro Cop win that raises eyebrows when putting Mir in a current HW all time top 10.

And if we're talking current all time HW's, what's the point? MMA is so young as a sport that we can easily put Mir in the top 10 or top 5 but very likely he won't stay there after even 5 years.

Fedor, Nog, Cro Cop - these are guys that will stay in the discussion after 5 years because of the history they made. Mir was unfortunately born too late in order to stay in the all time rankings with his skill and accomplishments.

Again, don't take any of this as hate for Mir. I am enjoying this discussion because it puts into perspective some of the premature worship a lot of MMA fans have for fighters such as Gus and Mousasi.
 
Driven said:
The disclaimer is by no means am I saying he's the HW GOAT. Fedor has that on lockdown.


There was a point in time where UFC had 3 top HW's: AA, Mir and Sylvia.

Pride had their 3: Cro Cop, Nogueira and Fedor.

We didn't get to see Fedor or AA vs. Mir, but he fought Cro Cop, Sylvia and Big Nog 2X's and emphatically beat them, which earned him 2 Championships along the way.

He does have some "what the hell..." losses like Pe De Pano, Freeman and Vera.

Those aside, he has huge wins and the guy has been top 10 for such a long time.



Where does his status reach in the all time HW's spot?

I think he may be top 10.
Click to expand...

May be top 10? Of course he's top 10. He's top 5.
 
BaliShagSmoke said:
Your last point is a pretty shallow justification for Mir. No one can take anything away from the Nog win. It's the Cro Cop win that raises eyebrows when putting Mir in a current HW all time top 10.

And if we're talking current all time HW's, what's the point? MMA is so young as a sport that we can easily put Mir in the top 10 or top 5 but very likely he won't stay there after even 5 years.

Fedor, Nog, Cro Cop - these are guys that will stay in the discussion after 5 years because of the history they made. Mir was unfortunately born too late in order to stay in the all time rankings with his skill and accomplishments.

Again, don't take any of this as hate for Mir. I am enjoying this discussion because it puts into perspective some of the premature worship a lot of MMA fans have for fighters such as Gus and Mousasi.
Click to expand...


Gus and Gegard are guys who are into their break through periods of their careers.

They are both in their coming out parties in the public eye.


Frank is in the dwindle down phase after being at the upper echelons forever.

Out of 38 MMA fights, Mirko was KO'd four times.

Of course as MMA progresses, his status will get further pushed back.

Currently, it's hard to say he isn't a top 10 all time HW.
 
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