Mir's all time status?

[SharkBoy]

I don't get how everybody is putting Nog before Mir. I'm really a Nog fan and not so much a fan of Mir's but noone can argue that he beat Nog TWICE. And that wasn't at the end of Nog's career either where Nog would be old and Mir young.

because logic will tell you that Nog beat a lot more top fighters and only lost to quality competition

his career is about twice as successful as mir's

two head to head losses at the tail end of his career don't change that fact. Simply put, Nog was a far more successful hw and for a much greater duration of time.

 

[savemgs]

top 10

 

[TheComebackKid]

because logic will tell you that Nog beat a lot more top fighters and only lost to quality competition

his career is about twice as successful as mir's

two head to head losses at the tail end of his career don't change that fact. Simply put, Nog was a far more successful hw and for a much greater duration of time.

Yeah no doubt. Nog went 21-2 at one point only losing to Fedor. Nog's list of wins is more impressive than any HW in history including Fedor. Mir definitely owns the head to head match up but Nog's resume completely eclipses Mir's.

 

[Amerikuracana]

Agreed although I would say Barnett is definitely ahead of Werdum. Werdum really needs to win a belt to solidify his legacy.

Probably. The UFC hasn't really liked Werdum in the past, you know, because he did what was best for himself/did not let the UFC push him around like they were the only game in town.. He should easily be the one to fight for the belt next.

 

[Garnett Silk]

His only win worth mentioning is a TKO over Nog

Don't be an @$$. He beat Nog 2x both by brutal finishes...he deserves that respect. He was on the receiving end of some of the most brutal KO beatings from the two strongest HWs probably ever and his chin quickly deteriorated after that. He will be remembered as arguably the best or among the best submission hws ever. If you want to say he's top 10....the sport is still evolving and growing so his place among the top 10 may be temporary

Cain
JDS
Fedor
Nogueira
Mirko
Barnett
Randy
Coleman
Mir
(I can only think of 9 I don't think AA, Sylvia, Werdum, deserve that spot)

 

[Garnett Silk]

Just outside the top 10. He beat some name guys but mostly after they were washed up. He has some big wins but he also has some big losses to guys no top HW should lose to. If he was more consistent he would be higher.

Name 10 fighters that have better careers/ legacies than Mir....(heavyweight)

 

[Bulsebub**]

I hate to be that guy but his most important wins are past their prime nog and cro cop or a green lesnar.... and sylvia.

 

[TheComebackKid]

Probably. The UFC hasn't really liked Werdum in the past, you know, because he did what was best for himself/did not let the UFC push him around like they were the only game in town.. He should easily be the one to fight for the belt next.

Yeah it doesn't make any sense to me the way the UFC seems to be completely shunning Werdum. Outside of Cain and JDS, Werdum has been the most consistently elite HW since the Fedor era.

Hopefully after the Cain-JDS trilogy is over Werdum will get a shot.

 

[Garnett Silk]

there is no case for Mir being ahead of Werdum

Mir did win the belt 2x although he never defended it. Werdum has not won Gold. Having won the belt must stand for and mean something. Yes Werdum's resume is very impressive. But IMO having never been champion is what separates the 2. Mir's book is closed Werdum's is still being written......

 

[TheComebackKid]

Name 10 fighters that have better careers/ legacies than Mir....(heavyweight)

Fedor
Nog
Cain
JDS
Mirko
Barnett
Couture
Coleman
Rutten


You could maybe slide Mir into the #10 spot but he'd have competition with AA, Sylvia, and Werdum. Funaki, Shamrock, and Severn should probably also be in the discussion.

 

[SharkBoy]

Last I checked, most athletes compete to be champions in sports, unless your name is Tank Abbott or Butterbean. I don't think we should get to put an asterik by someone's record. When Werdum and Mir started their careers, their goal was to be champ--one accomplished it and the other didn't. If the question is who can beat who, then that's another story. Werdum beats him right now, but Mir has the official accomplishments.

such a silly premise, forehead slap

one guy has a far more accomplished record, and yet you want to give it to a guy who held a title, at a time when the competition was far worse and the second time when it was an interim title.

When a title fight is given, merit is only partly factored and popularity is hugely factored in. Mir was on the brink of getting cut, but then he beat a high powered noob in Brock in his second mma fight. that gave him the interim shot at NOG

How can you compare that to Werdum, who beat the consensus number one, has far more top ten wins and far less embarrassing losses?

Is mma a popularity contest? is that what leaves a status or legacy? no thanks, that's for teenage girls

 

[SharkBoy]

Name 10 fighters that have better careers/ legacies than Mir....(heavyweight)

1 Fedor Emelianenko
2 Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
3 Cain Velasquez
4 Josh Barnett
5 Junior dos Santos
6 Mirko Filipovic
7 Daniel Cormier
8 Fabricio Werdum
9 Antonio Silva
10 Alistair Overeem
11 Tim Sylvia
12 Andrei Arlovski

 

[TheComebackKid]

1 Fedor Emelianenko
2 Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
3 Cain Velasquez
4 Josh Barnett
5 Junior dos Santos
6 Mirko Filipovic
7 Daniel Cormier
8 Fabricio Werdum
9 Antonio Silva
10 Alistair Overeem
11 Tim Sylvia
12 Andrei Arlovski

I think its really tough to put Alistair, Bigfoot, and Cormier ahead of Mir.

 

[lfd0311]

1 Fedor Emelianenko
2 Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
3 Cain Velasquez
4 Josh Barnett
5 Junior dos Santos
6 Mirko Filipovic
7 Daniel Cormier
8 Fabricio Werdum
9 Antonio Silva
10 Alistair Overeem
11 Tim Sylvia
12 Andrei Arlovski

What exactly have Cormier and Bigfoot done that put them above Mir?

 

[L0ki]

1 Fedor Emelianenko
2 Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
3 Cain Velasquez
4 Josh Barnett
5 Junior dos Santos
6 Mirko Filipovic
7 Daniel Cormier
8 Fabricio Werdum
9 Antonio Silva
10 Alistair Overeem
11 Tim Sylvia
12 Andrei Arlovski

Out of the fighters in that list, Frank has a winning record.

 

[lfd0311]

Couture shouldn't be above Barnett or Mir on the heavyweight list.

a two time HW champ isn't above Barnett and Mir?

 

[Amerikuracana]

a two time HW champ isn't above Barnett and Mir?

Champ of what? Dark ages UFC when Pride was going on?

EDIT: I guess we better get Konrad in the conversation.. He was an undefeated champion.

 

[DeathIsHere]

1 Fedor Emelianenko
2 Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
3 Cain Velasquez
4 Josh Barnett
5 Junior dos Santos
6 Mirko Filipovic
7 Daniel Cormier
8 Fabricio Werdum
9 Antonio Silva
10 Alistair Overeem
11 Tim Sylvia
12 Andrei Arlovski

Everybody listed under number 7 is ridiculous, especially Cormier and Bigfoot. Cormier has a win over Frank, yes, but Frank is also one of his biggest wins period (along with Barnett). He hasn't had nearly enough time to put himself above Frank's accomplishments all time. Bigfoot's biggest win is Fedor when Fedor was at a huge size disadvantage and the tail end of his career, apart from that he's not looked overly impressive in any of his fights (only exception is the Browne fight). He got absolutely mauled by Cain twice, looked terrible against Overeem until the finish, and got flat knocked out cold by Cormier.

Frank has the accomplishments to bring himself above the lower half of that list. Sylvia and Arlovski can come close but Frank has stayed at a higher level of competition and stayed ahead of them in the all time list. Everybody above Cormier and Werdum (who doesn't have the resume in MMA to be above Frank yet, but can very well get to it in the coming years) can make a case for being above Frank all time with the addition of Randy Couture. I'd put Frank somewhere in 5-7 range, probably right where you have Cormier now.

 

[pine snake]

glass ceiling champion goat

 

[Amerikuracana]

Daniel Cormier ahead of Werdum?? This place is f***ed in the head.