Kanye West: "Slavery for 400 years?.....400 years!!!!!...That sounds like a choice!"

[Deleted member 196663]

it is weird that he went from george bush hates black people to MAGA.

No, not at all. People too often think the associations they make in their head are automatically significant. They typically never take the comparison any further than that. So it just remains in the perception category. That’s intellectual laziness. Nothing more.

 

[franklinstower]

If everyone just stops talking about Kanye he'll go away. I promise.

This--- and that is the end of the discussion. He has nothing to say and no authority to say it with.

 

[robotsonic]

Actually my point is that they didn't know what was going to happen to the slaves they sold because slavery as practiced in those cultures did not resemble slavery as it was practiced in the Americas.

Utter rubbish, slavery in Africa and especially meso America was orders worse than anything Europeans were doing.

Slaves in those cultures were essentially expendable primarily due to the constant supply. The Aztecs would enslave entire villages then sacrifice them to some god or another on a whim. Slavery is a brutal practice all round but to act like the Europeans did it in some extra bad way is intellectual dishonesty plain and simple.

Black Americans tend to have this weird sadistic streak where they have to take pride in being the most trodden on, you see it with all this ghetto pride nonsense. My area is more crime infested than yours, etc. There's a bizarre pride in it. It's within their interest to maximize their suffering while trying to minimize everyone else's as it feeds into the that. Same reason why there are people out there who genuinely think that Oprah has it worse than some toothless redneck because white privilege or whatever. It's absurd, doesn't stand up to scrutiny in the slightest.

 

[Andy Capp]

I bought several of his albums this week due only to his tweets. Did you know he is a rapper? I thought he was like R and B.

Anyway, some on the Left seem to be taking Kanye's tweets pretty hard: https://newrepublic.com/article/148168/kanye-west-the-ezra-pound-rap.

I didn't get anything from that article that suggests "some on the left seem to be taking Kanye's tweets pretty hard." Did we read the same article? The one I read said it was very specific people who took issue with Kanye's tweets, one of them suggesting he reconsider his support. I don't get "taking it pretty hard" from "reconsider". It was a very interesting read, in any event, despite your odd comment.

It certainly raises the question about how we treat any artist who behaves deplorably in his personal life but makes broadly appealing art and the contradictions that can arise therefrom. Cosby and Mel Gibson are good examples. I have mixed feelings about their early work.

It doesn't seem overly relevant to the topic of "taking Kanye's tweets pretty hard" though.

 

[ImNotSurpisedDonks!]

Kanye West is a fuckin retard, it's hilarious how the right embraces this idiot just because he loves Trump

It's sad we live in a time where one's political beliefs dictate which products and services we choose to like.

Person A: "I love this burger....best burger I have had in years!"
Person B: "Did you know the chef likes Trump?"
Person A: "Barf!!!".

And what is more sad is how strong that allegiance to one's political team is, to the point where families, friends and marriages have been broken up over something as silly and trivial as politics.

 

[panamaican]

Utter rubbish, slavery in Africa and especially meso America was orders worse than anything Europeans were doing.

Slaves in those cultures were essentially expendable primarily due to the constant supply. The Aztecs would enslave entire villages then sacrifice them to some god or another on a whim. Slavery is a brutal practice all round but to act like the Europeans did it in some extra bad way is intellectual dishonesty plain and simple.

Black Americans tend to have this weird sadistic streak where they have to take pride in being the most trodden on, you see it with all this ghetto pride nonsense. My area is more crime infested than yours, etc. There's a bizarre pride in it. It's within their interest to maximize their suffering while trying to minimize everyone else's as it feeds into the that. Same reason why there are people out there who genuinely think that Oprah has it worse than some toothless redneck because white privilege or whatever. It's absurd, doesn't stand up to scrutiny in the slightest.

http://www.discoveringbristol.org.u...aved-people/enslaved-africans/africa-slavery/

There was a difference between slavery as practiced in the U.S. compared to slavery as practiced elsewhere. Whether one was better or worse than the other is something you can debate but there were differences which would preclude the assumption that the African based sellers were cognizant of the exact circumstances into which they were selling slaves.

 

[Andy Capp]

The "everyone is racist so why bother" argument is a tired deflection, and you know it. Similar to the climate science denialists who say "well, the planet is going to expire eventually, so might as well not sacrifice our current convenience to stop it."

Also, I very, very rarely see people called racist arbitrarily. If one of your statements or suppositions is called that, you'd be best off earnestly reflecting on it, instead of instantly getting defensive and indignant.

But look who you're talking to. Don't hold your breath.

 

[ImNotSurpisedDonks!]

Black Americans tend to have this weird sadistic streak where they have to take pride in being the most trodden on, you see it with all this ghetto pride nonsense. My area is more crime infested than yours, etc. There's a bizarre pride in it. It's within their interest to maximize their suffering while trying to minimize everyone else's as it feeds into the that. Same reason why there are people out there who genuinely think that Oprah has it worse than some toothless redneck because white privilege or whatever. It's absurd, doesn't stand up to scrutiny in the slightest.

And in rap/hip hop music/ghetto culture, it not just the celebration of sadism, it is the celebration of practically everything that Western morality stood for: avoid family life, be a player, do as much drugs as you can, have as much sex as you can, murder is cool, avoid work just get fucked up, formal education is stupid, treat women terribly, etc.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

I didn't get anything from that article that suggests "some on the left seem to be taking Kanye's tweets pretty hard." Did we read the same article? The one I read said it was very specific people who took issue with Kanye's tweets, one of them suggesting he reconsider his support. I don't get "taking it pretty hard" from "reconsider". It was a very interesting read, in any event, despite your odd comment.

It certainly raises the question about how we treat any artist who behaves deplorably in his personal life but makes broadly appealing art and the contradictions that can arise therefrom. Cosby and Mel Gibson are good examples. I have mixed feelings about their early work.

It doesn't seem overly relevant to the topic of "taking Kanye's tweets pretty hard" though.

They were discussing whether or not Kanye was like Ezra Pound. Do you know who Ezra Pound is and how they are saying he is analogous to Kanye? He was a gifted and celebrated poet (though somewhat overrated imo) who committed treason by defecting to Mussolini's Italy during the Second World War and doing propaganda broadcasts aimed at Allied troops for which he later spent time in prison.

That's taking Kanye's tweets pretty hard.

 

[HomeRun916]

I’d like to have a beer with this guy.

 

[Andy Capp]

@HomerThompson meh flavor of the week. I submit,

 

[Andy Capp]

They were discussing whether or not Kanye was like Ezra Pound. Do you know who Ezra Pound is and how they are saying he is analogous to Kanye? He was a gifted and celebrated poet (though somewhat overrated imo) who committed treason by defecting to Mussolini's Italy during the Second World War and doing propaganda broadcasts aimed at Allied troops for which he later spent time in prison.

That's taking Kanye's tweets pretty hard.

You make a good case for the argument that you didn't read the article.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

You make a good case for the argument that you didn't read the article.

Lol?

It's starts with a consideration of disappointment caused by Kanye's comments about Trump. That becomes a discussion about how to handle apparent discrepancies between a person's artistic content and their political ideology. It mentions Jules Verne, Bertolt Brecht, WB Yeats, but the lynchpin of the whole article is the debate surrounding Ezra Pound. And the introduction to that debate is when Josh Marshall directly compares Kanye to Pound.

FWIW, I actually agree with the article's conclusion and its treatment of the subject. However, the fact that it needs to be reviewed at all demonstrates that people are taking this hard. Seeing Kanye as a race traitor (in this thread, and on social media, and in the media) is quite an overreaction.

 

[Andy Capp]

Ok. It is like Canadians claiming they beat America in the war of 1812. Canada didn't exist then. lol. And they try to take credit for it.

Does that somehow change the fact the the US lost and that the people residing in what would be Canada a mere 50 years later were the victors?

 

[Seano]

Kanye is overdoing it, obviously, but its unfortunate to see a guy being shit on for leaving victim culture behind. I don't get that mentality, wanting to be viewed as cut rate and socially handicapped.

 

[Andy Capp]

Lol?

It's starts with a consideration of disappointment caused by Kanye's comments about Trump. That becomes a discussion about how to handle apparent discrepancies between a person's artistic content and their political ideology. It mentions Jules Verne, Bertolt Brecht, WB Yeats, but the lynchpin of the whole article is the debate surrounding Ezra Pound. And the introduction to that debate is when Josh Marshall directly compares Kanye to Pound.

FWIW, I actually agree with the article's conclusion and its treatment of the subject. However, the fact that it needs to be reviewed at all demonstrates that people are taking this hard. Seeing Kanye as a race traitor (in this thread, and on social media, and in the media) is quite an overreaction.

Then it's hardly an over-reaction is it? Show me the person calling him a race traitor and I'll show you someone engaging in hyperbole but in your post that I quoted, you even capitalized Left as though there were some grand firestorm of over-reaction when it seems isolated to a small number of individuals. The article totally contradicts your own narrative. You can stop trolling now. It's not working but it is wasting my time.

 

[Andy Capp]

Check out the full TMZ interview. Kanye is a real dude, unconventional methods but hes a true free thinker. But I think he's really trying his best to help the black community, and I think his message goes even deeper than that, its universal. Black vs White, East vs West, Nation vs nation, etc.

People like Kanye can actually make a real difference with his power, money and influence. Watch the last part of that full interview and tell me this guy doesn't at least make a decent point.



The full interview shows a completely different side to his message, people should watch it. He also displays a high level of patience and intelligence in how he was able to diffuse the situation/argument and turn things to his side. The mainstream media is showing highly edited parts of his TMV interview to show him in a negative light.

So, he starts off talking about being so vain he got liposuction, then about getting addicted to pills because of it and uses that as an excuse to blame the media?

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Then it's hardly an over-reaction is it? Show me the person calling him a race traitor and I'll show you someone engaging in hyperbole but in your post that I quoted, you even capitalized Left as though there were some grand firestorm of over-reaction when it seems isolated to a small number of individuals. The article totally contradicts your own narrative. You can stop trolling now. It's not working but it is wasting my time.

Er, wut? There article contains direct quotes of people suggesting Kanye is a race traitor and comparing him to a notorious traitor. So you say they are engaging in hyperbole, but are outraged when I say they are overreacting? The one trolling here is you.

I do think people should read the article, as it is interesting.

 

[Andy Capp]

Er, wut? There article contains direct quotes of people suggesting Kanye is a race traitor and comparing him to a notorious traitor. So you say they are engaging in hyperbole, but are outraged when I say they are overreacting? The one trolling here is you.

I do think people should read the article, as it is interesting.

How do you get the word outrage from anything I said? This is what I mean. There is nothing outrageous about the language used in the article either. It quoted John Legend saying he wished Kanye would reconsider, and another guy who said he was boycotting his music. They call that voting with your wallet where I am from. And you said, "I actually agree with the article's conclusion and its treatment of the subject." So in what way can it be described as "the Left" taking it hard? Ridiculous. If you aren't trolling, it's something else that's wrong with you, for sure. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt but what I'm not giving is the tiniest shit about what Kanye West thinks.

 

[Amerikuracana]

http://www.discoveringbristol.org.u...aved-people/enslaved-africans/africa-slavery/

There was a difference between slavery as practiced in the U.S. compared to slavery as practiced elsewhere. Whether one was better or worse than the other is something you can debate but there were differences which would preclude the assumption that the African based sellers were cognizant of the exact circumstances into which they were selling slaves.

I'm guessing the African slave quarters were, and are, more revolting than most of the early American slave quarters. I'm not sure, but I can imagine.


I really don't know what to say about "The African slave traders really didn't know what they were selling the slaves into" statement. I kind of want to laugh a little, but then it's more "pop-sociology is faker than astrology" sadness.

The disregard for the lives of prisoners enslaved by rival tribes could not be surpassed. A (low) baseline value for life was already part of what made Europeans organized and strong enough as a group to spread across the globe to establish infrastructure. This is the opposite of the b.s. somebody will try to teach you, or what the media will say, but we know.. Those native tribes and Africans would have wiped out more people that looked like them than Europeans did, if they had the means. It's still there, in places like Detroit and across America, "black" folks not valuing each others lives when it really counts.

In the middle east you have videos of women letting Africans fall out of windows and laughing. Do white people treat their house cleaners like that? Whites are not the cruelest. Sorry. We are just organized enough when it comes down to business to handle big projects.