Jones would rather fight 45 yr old fossil Stipe than cement his legacy against Tom

I don't know why people are getting this upset about the situation. Fighting Aspinall does nothing for Jones. His legacy is set. The history books won't say that Jones beat a washed Stipe, it'll be a W next to the UFC HW GOAT.

Yes casuals and idiots who just google his resume and ignore context will be impressed and that is exactly what Jones is banking on. People with a brain can see through the charade.
 
Last edited:
How does beating Stipe who has not fought in 3 years, and was knocked out in his last fight add to his legacy? You think just a name regardless of context adds to legacy? Thats such a casual take.

We all understand Jones perspective, he wants to cherry pick a name on his resume to fool the idiots rather than actually really accomplishing something like beating the top ranked interim champion who is on a tear. Will anyone really be excited for the Stipe Jones fight? What a waste of time.
Legacies are more for casuals than anything, sherdog already has made up their mind regarding Jones, he is a cheat and does not qualify as goat, am i wrong? They just want to see him lose and Aspinall is their last hope, and yes, legacies are built on mostly names, context of fights is just extra for some fans, Floyd beat an old Pacquiao, thats still on his resume, Bisping beat old Silva, name is still in his resume, same goes for Jones if he beats Stipe, Stipe himself refused to fight Aspinall...it doesnt add anything to his legacy, and he is far from undefeated.
 
Last edited:
Tells you everything you need to know. Jon doesn’t have a warriors spirit. He’s happy to feather his nest and lie to his own fans. I mean sure he puts in a lot of time training in the gym which not everyone can do, but as far as his character and how he reacts to struggles inside and outside the cage, he’s not an example to follow. Genuinely don’t know how this guy has any fans. From the first time I heard him speak I knew he was a fake guy, you could hear how contrived his words were. This was when he was in his religious holier than thou phase lol, remember that.
"cement" his legacy?

it's already cemented. lol.
 
I think if he wins the Stipe fight and retires the wealth of his accomplishments will outshine not having fought Aspinall at the last turn, particularly if he has a good showing. The majority of fans will give him a pass, UFC mediatic spectacle will do so, and there will be a conciliatory narrative about how Jones had hurdles but in the end was the GOAT. You forget that while Jon has many haters and detractors (myself included) he is also one of the most popular fighters, and many fighters, analysts, and fans consider him the undisputed GOAT already, regardless of what happens with Stipe. I think if he beats Stipe and retires that subset of the fanbase and MMA world will outspeak the detractor end.

I don't think the retirement talk is a tactic; 36yo is not a terrible age to retire since one is likely already in decline, and Jon is coming off an injury. It's not as if Stipe or DC looked great into their 40s. And frankly Jones hasn't looked particularly good in the majority of his last outtings: Smith, Santos, Reyes... Gane was a short fight, but the three prior to that were very mediocre performances, two of which were toss-up decisions. He is clearly past his prime, is coming from injury, competing at a higher weight class and won't be going back to LHW, and is older.

Concerning the future of Aspinall, I am making a point about longer term perception. If Aspinall loses his next two fights and never gets the title again, people will retrospectively say he never was that good, and that people who thought he could be the next 'big thing' were wrong. He will be forgotten in that narrative. That's the way of the sport. And that will affect how people perceive Jon's decision. Yes, he is likely be the next undisputed champ, but we don't know this to a certainty, and even then we don't know if he would manage to defend his title once or twice. So, I understand Jon for thinking this is a fight that is too risky for too little in return. Aspinall is simply not a household name, doesn't have the titles, or cemented value for Jon at this juncture.

Would I prefer to see it? Sure. Would it be objectively more meaningful than Stipe? Sure. But the wider fanbase does not concur, and the fact remains Stipe will make bigger numbers, is an easier fight and more consolidated name. More money, easier fight, more historical prestige (at least to the eyes of most).

I would normally think this is BS but since it is Jon's retirement fight, I'm fine with it. I don't think this will affect how I rank Jones at all, however.

So you think the uninformed will inform the future masses instead of the actual informed? I know people will think he is the GOAT, that is not the point. People can think he is the GOAT and still think he ducked Tom. Because it's just too blatant of a duck for people to ignore, especially fighters will recognize this whether they think he is the GOAt or not.

Also the narrative around a Stipe win will just be that he beat a husk of Stipe's fomer-self and not Aspinall. It will be the talk leading up to it and it will be the talk after it, like it is the talk now. It will all be documented and it will all be available for future fans to look up. it might not be the way the UFC sells it, but I actually would bet my money on it that Joe or Anik would at least mention something about the different narratives coming into the fight, during the broadcast, or just mention Aspinall's interim status. It's a baked-in part of the story.

Bruh.... I know what you are saying with the hypothetical. I'm saying it is ridiculus and weak reason to base a decision on. The what ifs can be applied to anything. What if a meteor falls down on me in five minutes, might as well kill myself right now...
And even if it would happen, they would still tell the story with how amazing Tom looked in his ascension, not focus on what happened after Jon. And even if they would talk about what happened after, they would just say Jon took his soul, crediting Jon. Jon had no problem taking on Reyes, OSP, Smith, Santos, etc. without them having a big name. Tom is likely to be a bigger name than any of them, the way it looks right now. And the right now is when he would take the fight, he isn't taking the fight in some hypothethical future where Tom has lost a bunch. so it's just a contrived and thinly veiled excuse to hide the fact he is ducking the harder and more deserving challenge. And that is how the story will be told by many, some will probably tell it in a way that reflects positively on Jon, but the facts are on the side of the ones using the duck narrative. So i don't know why you think the ones who will try to make Jon look good will have the last laugh, unless you think they will actually try to cover up all the details surrounding the story. However, I think that will be highly unlikely to happen.

I don't think it has been as much of a decline as it has been stylistically tougher match ups. Younger, bigger/taller dudes that were relatively unpredictable. That's also why he is ducking Aspinall. That's the way it will be told and that's the way I will tell it till the day I die, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Unless, you know, he were to change his mind and accept the fight with Aspinall. Also, the whole ducking Ngannou narrative will not be forgotten either, especially if Ngannou would K Joshua TFO! That would just lend more credibility to it, in the eyes of the casual, and bring more attention to it.

Also, I think Stipe isn't even that known with the absolute casual. It doesn't even have that much prestige. It will all hang on the fact that he was the longest reigning champ ages ago, and you have to willfullly ignore all the other circumstances to buy into that narrative. Those circumstances won't be forgotten. There is no reason to.
 
Last edited:
Lol. I was calling out TS on exaggerating Stipe’s age by half a decade, yet you seem fine with that. Ridiculous.

DC was 39, while Stipe was 35 when they first met and DC KO’ed him. 4-5 years isn’t a big age gap.

Also Jones has actually more mileage than Stipe.

And we’ve had champions at that age beating younger opponents plenty of times.

44 year old Couture beat 28 year old Gonzaga.
42 yo Glover beat 38 yo Jan.
39 yo DC beat 33 yo Lewis.
38 yo Jan beat 31 yo Izzy.
37 yo Werdum beat 32 yo Cain.
36 yo Woodley beat 25 yo Till.
36 yo Poatan beat 31 yo Jiri.

5 years is a big age difference at those ages (40+) in professional sports, no matter how you are trying to spin it.

I didn’t say that that it’s impossible for fighters in their 40’s to beat 5 years younger opponents. But it’s rare. And rare for a reason.
 
@krelianx Everytime the subject of ducking will come up on SD, or someone makes specifically a thread on the subject, people will bring up Jon as an example. It might very well become a meme. Doesn't mean there won't be people still buying into the BS Jon will be telling the fans, or the BS UFC will tell the fans, but there will always be people to oppose them.

Man, if you watch old boxing documentaries they mention the public perception and narrative of ducking (or other narratives) all the time, and that's from times from which barely anything has survived, in the public eye, beyond what documentary makers and rare footages will tell you. Now you will have a billion YTers and other media talking about it.
 
Last edited:
I don't know why people are getting this upset about the situation. Fighting Aspinall does nothing for Jones. His legacy is set. The history books won't say that Jones beat a washed Stipe, it'll be a W next to the UFC HW GOAT. Anyone thinking Jones has to fight Aspinall is just deluding themselves.

If I'm Tom I try to get a fight soon and start raking in those PPV points until Jones officially vacates. He can fight Gane, Blaydes, Almeida.
It's just like when gsp came out of retirement for bisping and then left again. So many people were crying about how he HAS to fight this guy or that guy for his legacy. Like he was some up and comer, not a divisional goat coming off serious injuries. What it really is, is people don't like to see fighters they don't like go out on top.
 
@krelianx Everytime the subject of ducking will come up on SD, or someone makes specifically a thread on the subject, people will bring up Jon as an example. It might very well become a meme. Doesn't mean there won't be people still buying into the BS Jon will be telling the fans, or the BS UFC will tell the fans, but there will always be people to oppose them.

Man, if you watch old boxing documentaries they mention the public perception and narrative of ducking (or other narratives) all the time, and that's from times from which barely anything has survived, in the public eye, beyond what documentary makers and rare footages will tell you. Now you will have a billion YTers and other media talking about it.

I think considering it's just the retirement fight it won't be judged too severely, particularly if Aspinall doesn't turn out to be the next great thing. But I could be wrong. Anyway, we've heard each other's arguments and we will have to agree to disagree it seems.
 
Aspinal is flavour of the month. So people need to get over him. Hes the one who needs to proove himself. Jj is literally the best
 
I don't know why people are getting this upset about the situation. Fighting Aspinall does nothing for Jones. His legacy is set. The history books won't say that Jones beat a washed Stipe, it'll be a W next to the UFC HW GOAT. Anyone thinking Jones has to fight Aspinall is just deluding themselves.

If I'm Tom I try to get a fight soon and start raking in those PPV points until Jones officially vacates. He can fight Gane, Blaydes, Almeida.

I understand the mentality of people wanting to tear down successful people in an effort to equalize themselves in comparison, but the level of Jones derangement is quite extreme it is really hard to understand.

I think it may be so extremely irrational because Jones' accomplishments as a fighter are so clearly unmatched. People can look at GSP and say he tapped to strikes, Silva got KO'ed, etc, but Jones has never been beaten in a fight so they reach for whatever they can to try to discredit him in their minds.
 
i love the people acting like Stipe does more for Jones legacy than beating an up and coming young lion. beating Tom solidfies Jon's greatness even at HW. the only win that's better than Tom is Ngannou and that's gone. beating Stipe doesn't really mean shit. so what that he was the longest reigning HW champion. Ngannou destroyed him and and he had difficulties vs DC who Jon dominated.
 
I understand the mentality of people wanting to tear down successful people in an effort to equalize themselves in comparison, but the level of Jones derangement is quite extreme it is really hard to understand.

I think it may be so extremely irrational because Jones' accomplishments as a fighter are so clearly unmatched. People can look at GSP and say he tapped to strikes, Silva got KO'ed, etc, but Jones has never been beaten in a fight so they reach for whatever they can to try to discredit him in their minds.

Jones has popped for steroids about 6 times. He won all of his fights by cheating. As soon as they changed the rules to stop him maintaining range with eye pokes he struggled - hence the performances vs Santos, Reyes etc
 
Jones doesn't need to cement his legacy. I am all in for him to fight Aspinall but to cement his legacy? Probably not. It is more that Tom deserves it.

Jones has popped for steroids about 6 times. He won all of his fights by cheating. As soon as they changed the rules to stop him maintaining range with eye pokes he struggled - hence the performances vs Santos, Reyes etc

You are seeing the glass half empty. Maybe you are discrediting Santos and Reyes that probably had the fights of their lives vs Jones and tried their best?
 
As a JJ-hater: he's 100% right here.
Get the money, retire on a high. He has no obligations to us fans.
 
Jones doesn't need to cement his legacy. I am all in for him to fight Aspinall but to cement his legacy? Probably not. It is more that Tom deserves it.



You are seeing the glass half empty. Maybe you are discrediting Santos and Reyes that probably had the fights of their lives vs Jones and tried their best?

Goats don’t lose to Reyes.
 
The absolute state of Jon Jones haters

lol

Who dafuq is Tim Aspinall
The guy ain’t cementing anyone’s legacy
 
Jones has popped for steroids about 6 times. He won all of his fights by cheating. As soon as they changed the rules to stop him maintaining range with eye pokes he struggled - hence the performances vs Santos, Reyes etc

I'm not going to spend too much time explaining the science again, but that is not true. He has never tested positive for any steroid, that doesn't mean he hasn't used them like everyone especially considering the first half of his career was fought during the open use days.

The problem is USADA testing and processes aren't designed to actually detect steroid use. Even if they were it is not possible to accurately detect compounds like tbol after the very short time it is metabolized, because the drug is not approved for any legit medical purpose making it unethical to conduct human studies on it to fully understand its' metabolization.
 
We've heard this about the last 3 opponents he faced.
Hurr he will not fight Thiago, hurr he will lose against Reyes, hurr Cyril Gane A-Level athlete, too tall for Jones, will beat him.

The never ending cycle of Jones haters.
 
Back
Top