Jon Jones' crazy genius fighting IQ

[BowserJr]

Nah, he isn't. Fedor had a legitimate loss from TKO... Fedor had pretty much the same record Jon Jones has now, except Fedor had one loss. He had 1 win more than JJ, but one loss, which JJ lacks. When he lost to Werdum, even if his career ended there, it'd be still two losses. But the many losses after kinda stained it a little. Like, he lost twice later on to Ryan Badder, the first opponent in the UFC JJ had faced who was both a young up and comer like JJ back then and also undefeated, like 11-0 or so. JJ decimating him earned him the title shot vs Shogun. The fact that JJ went on to face different kind of monsters and the prospect up comer Ryan Badder did good but not that much, still ending up with 2 wins over Fedor... Kinda hard to put Fedor above imo.

Even more so because JJ faced generations of fighters. High level UFC fighters, with an advanced training, understanding of modern mma, and an increasing level of competition, who was constantly studying Jon Jones, with generally way better methods of breaking down one's style with advancing coaching methods, technology, data analyses being used with a storm camping... The fact that JJ appeared like a monster dominating the reigning era where Lyoto, Rampage Jackson, Shogun, etc. seemed like the best of the best was just... Like, "can this kid be beaten?" ... He then went into a new era with different kind of monsters, like Gustafson, DC (Gus was same age as JJ and DC got into mma later, so he is still of a newer era than JJ) and he prevailed in each of these ones, even if it meant almost losing an eye vs Gus or going through extremes vs DC, he kept it.

Then to to on a new era and defeat them all too — Anthony Smith, Thiago Santos, Reyes... All of them who were obsessing with JJ, breaking down his style, having their peak cycle to fight him, burning it all on him, they still couldn't defeat him. And ppl say Lionheart was just a mismatch, but months after Anthony Smith lost to JJ, he faced Gustafson, whose last fight was also JJ and he finished Gustafson in round 3... Which means he didn't suck, he was just part of a new era that was at his peak in those fights, was younger, and studied a lot those then dominant styles, like Gus, JJ... But JJ over prepared for Anthony Smith, so he froze him.

Thiago was also on an amazing streak, he had defeated Smith after beating Gustafson, he then KO'd Jan Blacowicz at the third round and fought JJ in his best... JJ won, tougher than most thought, but that's the new era... And after that, Thiago wasn't the same... His knee got fucked and he had neurological problems as in, he couldn't fight without doing a lot of involuntary movements, almost if he were shaking, but his muscles would be kinda moving without control. Reyes was unbeaten by then, and Reyes said even after his last 3 wins streak, that the peak of his performance was JJ... But ppl don't talk about the fact Reyes was unbeaten, had faced high tier opponents mostly and was obsessed with Jon Jones ever since the JJ vs DC fight. He said he since then would watch all of JJ fights. Would also analyse them as in depth, picking with his coaches all they could on how he reacts to certain attacks,etc..

... And Reyes was also obsessed psychologically with JJ. He said he followed JJ all the way... That he watched all interviews of him, that he would take notes of info on what JJ said about his parents, he said he'd look at JJ's kids, his wife, he'd try to know what he takes as supplements for certain fights... And even searched and read the books JJ mentioned in interviews to try to "understand" JJ psychologically... The fact he lost to JJ, and he knows he lost but denied it a long time, broke him. Now after his last fight, Reyes said one thing that helped him was embracing that loss, was seeing that it wasn't what he thought, instead it was a close fight which JJ managed to outdo him. And he said he just embraced the fact he gave JJ one of his toughest challenges and was like, "be the Reyes of that night", which to him helped even more in his last performance flash KO...

So long winded just to say cuck nonesense, as usual.

Fedor got cut by an elbow which was illegal. It wasn't a loss or a N/A because it was a multi fight in same night tournament so he had to go on.

Fedor did more in 10yrs over his 33 first fights than Jones has over 17 years and 30 fights. Fedor was almost always the smaller fighter whiles Jones has always been the bigger fighter, relying on cheating in and out of the Cage and favorable judging even against sub par competition.

Santos and Smith were failed MWs who moved up and couldn't beat declined Glover. Come to think of it 4 of Jones best wins were against MW lol.

And Reyes has proven to be weak AF. He earned his shot after beating a blown up Weidman in his 1 LHW fight. It proves that LHW has been a joke and the 2nd weakest division for a decade.

 

[TheNewGame]

It's pure hate really.


Doesn't it bother you that all his competition had their work done in the "steroid era" or orgs that don't test? To me, that either means PEDs don't matter because these guys were all clean and out muscled them and had better cardio or that they were better at hiding in tests. Jones competition is Fedor, Anderson, GSP. None were putting up their resume in the clean era.

Even before USADA, Jones had "highly suspicious" test results for the first DC fight, while DCs results were normal. DC also never performed any different pre and post USADA unlike Jones with the exception of his overturned DC fight, and finishing a past prime Gus when he was "pulsing".

Thread 'Evidence of Jones' Guilt'

Feb 14, 2018

Apr 2012: The drug test results for UFC 145 (headlined by Jones) aren't released to the public; Andy Foster (current CSAC director), who proclaimed Jones' innocence throughout 2017-2018, served as the athletic commission's director in Georgia at the time.


Jan 2015: Greg Howard (who spent a lot of time with Jones to write a comprehensive article on him), reported that Jones was rumored to have hid under the octagon when the drug testers showed up at JacksonWink, prior to the first Cormier fight.

Jones confirmed that...

• acannxr
• Replies: 2,578
• Forum: UFC Discussion

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• 

 

[Tweak896]

Even before USADA, Jones had "highly suspicious" test results for the first DC fight, while DCs results were normal. DC also never performed any different pre and post USADA unlike Jones with the exception of his overturned DC fight, and finishing a past prime Gus when he was "pulsing".

Thread 'Evidence of Jones' Guilt'

Feb 14, 2018

Apr 2012: The drug test results for UFC 145 (headlined by Jones) aren't released to the public; Andy Foster (current CSAC director), who proclaimed Jones' innocence throughout 2017-2018, served as the athletic commission's director in Georgia at the time.


Jan 2015: Greg Howard (who spent a lot of time with Jones to write a comprehensive article on him), reported that Jones was rumored to have hid under the octagon when the drug testers showed up at JacksonWink, prior to the first Cormier fight.

Jones confirmed that...

• acannxr
• Replies: 2,578
• Forum: UFC Discussion

• 
• 

True, but I'm just saying the other guys he's compared against (GSP, Silva, Fedor) performed in their peak at a time where PEDs were thriving. Essentially they were all on it. I mean when it comes to steroid eras in baseball they pretty much acknowledge that the guys with the top stats prior to testing were probably on something.

DC's tests were actually not normal and had some weird issues with his testosterone levels. I remember when both released at the same time he had very strange low levels, but it was apparently not classified as a drug test failure but to most people here they realized it was a sign there wasn't something normal about it. Do you rate highly if a fighter is better at hiding PEDs than guys who are worse at masking?

 

[TheNewGame]

DC's tests were actually not normal and had some weird issues with his testosterone levels. I remember when both released at the same time he had very strange low levels, but it was apparently not classified as a drug test failure but to most people here they realized it was a sign there wasn't something normal about it.

It was only internet broscientists with their 8th grade education acting like they know the intricacies of the subject. PED experts say his numbers were perfectly normal for a guy who was in his late 30s cutting weight.

Hence Victor Conte and the NSAC both saying "Jones' are highly suspicious and Daniel Cormier’s are not" "Daniel’s are normal"

 

[Tweak896]

It was only internet broscientists with their 8th grade education acting like they know the intricacies of the subject. PED experts say his numbers were perfectly normal for a guy who was in his late 30s cutting weight.

Hence Victor Conte and the NSAC both saying "Jones' are highly suspicious and Daniel Cormier’s are not" "Daniel’s are normal"

Found the analysis for UFC 182, where basically they come to the conclusion that both DC and JJ were on something. This person has degrees in this stuff so I don't think that it's just arm chair doctors doing this. I mean it basically aligns with my perspective how everyone in the top levels is on something, some are smarter about sneaking it than others. It's suspicious how very particular fighters at the top are when it comes to dates they can return, almost like they are cycling on and off junk.

 

[Luffy]

View attachment 1092697

Last time I checked Jon lost that fight due to being a Cheater, he also got gift decisions in fights that he got outclassed and beaten like the Reyes and Gus I , and we can argue about the one legged middleweight fight too.

That isn't a loss in a legitimate way. The fight was already won, JJ was looking at the referee as Matt Hamill wasn't even responding back, the referee wouldn't stop it... JJ landed elbows in an illegal position. But understanding the context is crucial, as the referee was taking long to stop when even before the illegal elbows, Matt Hamill was not even defending himself anymore... Matt Hamill later on said he would never consider that a win, just a straight up loss.

No, he defeated Gus and Reyes. Officially and fair and square. There were no gifted decisions. Gus later on before the second match admitted he felt like he lost... He said he felt he didn't do enough, that JJ was tough and pulled ahead of him. Reyes was another close fight, but which had rounds 2 and 3 as close ones and the third a fair round to give to JJ because the significant strikes were close enough that JJ got ahead in effective strikes and aggression — his shots visibly affected Reyes more, both visually and the way Reyes started to slow down. Plus, constant pressure. It's pretty much like the third round between Alex and Ankalaev. JJ and Ankalaev despite being slightly below in significant strikes, were more effective. As per the rules, impact > volume. Unless the volume of strikes has a huge gap, the impact remains as a priority when weighing effectiveness of the strikes, plus the fighter who is taking the action and advancing.


So he won fair and square, he wasn't gifted. GSP vs Hendricks was way more controversial for example.

JJ didn't lose in a fight, ever. No matter how you spin it, facts are that he fought 30 times and got 30 wins. The DC 2 was a no contest, but... I wonder whether the Turinabol stuff mattered that much because DC said later that JJ won both fights... He even said "he didn't need anything like tainted substances, he didn't need that to defeat me. He's just that talented". Weird coming from someone that would have all the right to feel hugely disappointed if DC felt JJ used something that was artificially boosting him. Since he recognized the loss (Gus did as well, he said JJ was a beast, citing the way he beat DC and saying that the substance he was found with wasn't relevant for what JJ is capable of...), it imo means they use it as well but JJ got caught, they did not. The rage from them would be real if they were totally clean, I feel... The fact that both DC and Gus saw that as legitimate wins... With Gus after losing immediately going to JJ, hugging him, even kissing him on the cheek and saying "you are the best, huge respect, thanks for this last opportunity"... Kinda tells ppl that they knew JJ was being a little of a scapegoat. Likely, his out of UFC antics pressured for an attempt to scrutinize his tests only.

He is 30-0, 23-0 in the UFC... 15 belt defenses, 14 in LHW and 1 in HW... Undeniably the best. Most fighters recognize it. Again, GSP, Silva, Khabib, DC, Stipe... Now the new generation with Topuria, DDP and Chimaev echoing the same "JJ is the GOAT, for sure" ... It's a consensus within many fighters, including GSP, Silva, DC, Khabib... Khabib said though that to him JJ and Fedor are tied as #1 of all times. Some fans don't think it, but that changes nothing. Objectively, no one did what JJ did. End of.

 

[Luffy]

So long winded just to say cuck nonesense, as usual.

Fedor got cut by an elbow which was illegal. It wasn't a loss or a N/A because it was a multi fight in same night tournament so he had to go on.

Fedor did more in 10yrs over his 33 first fights than Jones has over 17 years and 30 fights. Fedor was almost always the smaller fighter whiles Jones has always been the bigger fighter, relying on cheating in and out of the Cage and favorable judging even against sub par competition.

Santos and Smith were failed MWs who moved up and couldn't beat declined Glover. Come to think of it 4 of Jones best wins were against MW lol.

And Reyes has proven to be weak AF. He earned his shot after beating a blown up Weidman in his 1 LHW fight. It proves that LHW has been a joke and the 2nd weakest division for a decade.

There was no subpart competition. He defeated many hall of famers. He beat Ryan Badder when both him and Jones were undefeated and a clash for the #1 contender to fight for the belt. He dominated and choked out a young Ryan Badder in round 2, easily. Ryan Badder defeated Fedor last year and in 2023, two times straight iirc.

Actually, Fedor's competition level was below that of JJ. Fedor wouldn't be able to deal with a prime JJ. The competition evolved. Not only that, JJ went through 3 eras. And he won every single fight in those 3 eras, needing to adapt his skills to the new era. Fedor ended up getting too many losses at the end. Like Silva, the many losses at the end makes them a step below JJ, who has just as much of an incredible record in a higher level competition, going through different eras, and didn't lose. It's different.

 

[ComfortablyNumb55]

How many fights he got knocked out in a row after JBJ?

Doesn't that make Jon look worse?

Not sure your angle works for your agenda.

 

[TheNewGame]

Found the analysis for UFC 182, where basically they come to the conclusion that both DC and JJ were on something. This person has degrees in this stuff so I don't think that it's just arm chair doctors doing this. I mean it basically aligns with my perspective how everyone in the top levels is on something, some are smarter about sneaking it than others. It's suspicious how very particular fighters at the top are when it comes to dates they can return, almost like they are cycling on and off junk.

Yeah I've seen that posted a few times. He/she sounds smart, whoever they are, but I need reputable sources that are on the level of Conte and the NSAC PED experts.

 

[p4pfighters]

That isn't a loss in a legitimate way

Of course it's a legitimate loss because he CHEATED his way to win , it's against the rules and should be penalized because it's a SPORT not a kumite deathmatch from Van Damme's movies, I don't know why there is a need to explain these things to Jones fans , their level of delusion is something that I have never seen on this forum.

 

[Fedorgasm]

It's the best. Likely one of the best fight IQ ever... Legendary shit. Like, to say he'd KO Stipe with that kick before the fight, all while saying he'd dominate and finish Stipe before the championship rounds... And doing exactly that, landing that kick only once, in the last 40 seconds of the third round, did exactly that — dominated him for most of the time, finished him with that kick in the only moment he tried that, and right before the championship rounds....

DC many years ago had talked about this too:

You can't seriously be impressed by anything he did to Stipe.

Stipe was completely shot. He looked old and slow before he even retired and that was 3 years before Jones fought him.

Fighting Stipe was like putting the game on easy mode. Aspinall would've wrecked him too if he was into beating the elderly.

 

[Morris88]

Found the analysis for UFC 182, where basically they come to the conclusion that both DC and JJ were on something. This person has degrees in this stuff so I don't think that it's just arm chair doctors doing this. I mean it basically aligns with my perspective how everyone in the top levels is on something, some are smarter about sneaking it than others. It's suspicious how very particular fighters at the top are when it comes to dates they can return, almost like they are cycling on and off junk.

I also remember reading that DC and Weidmans levels were consistent with someone who had come off cycle and whose T levels were subsequently suppressed.... I'm sure someone pointed out that DCs levels were consistent with an 80 year old woman's! Could be losing my fucking mind there

 

[Tweak896]

I also remember reading that DC and Weidmans levels were consistent with someone who had come off cycle and whose T levels were subsequently suppressed.... I'm sure someone pointed out that DCs levels were consistent with an 80 year old woman's! Could be losing my fucking mind there

It's bizarre how you basically have to dance around them being on anything, even with proof of weird results. Just because you don't officially get banned from PEDs, they skirted within the lines. But with DC there's proof he's done the towel trick and fouls or whatever, so it shows he's willing to do anything to gain an advantage and win. I basically over time ignore the PED stuff, the top guys are probably using it, but because their opponents are too it cancels out. These guys are out muscling everyone in the PED era. So I don't see the logic in defending them. DC has gone through the olympics and probably knows more than a dozen tricks to get past whatever the UFC had.

 

[Morris88]

It's bizarre how you basically have to dance around them being on anything, even with proof of weird results. Just because you don't officially get banned from PEDs, they skirted within the lines. But with DC there's proof he's done the towel trick and fouls or whatever, so it shows he's willing to do anything to gain an advantage and win. I basically over time ignore the PED stuff, the top guys are probably using it, but because their opponents are too it cancels out. These guys are out muscling everyone in the PED era. So I don't see the logic in defending them. DC has gone through the olympics and probably knows more than a dozen tricks to get past whatever the UFC had.

It is what it is mate. 2 things, first of all the Lance Armstrong example, but then secondly PEDs isn't a yes or no question, there's different degrees and even if hypothetically a group of athletes were all enhanced, the extent to which they were receiving the benefits of those substances would vary based on a number of different criteria.

As Nate Diaz would say...

 

[icemun]

OSP was not #1 contender 1st of all.

2nd of all Smith, Reyes, Santos wouldn't even smell top 15 in the golden age of 205.

Santos and Smith couldn’t beat an over the hill version of old man Glover

Both were literally failed MWs that went up to an easier division

Reyes was #1 after beating an over the hill Weidman who dipped his toes at LHW.

If those are your #1 contenders all it shows is how bad LHW has been.

Those guys are can level if they competed between 2003-2013


and No. Stipe was 42, retired with no wins in 4 years.

The fact still stands that in 17 years Jones couldnt accomplish what Fedor did in 10 despite have a size advantage over every opponent.
Fedors resume was better and more accomplished across his first 33 fights when compared to Jones existing 30 fights

Jones opponents were the top ranked guys in the UFC, the premiere mma organization whether your feelings like it or not.

You can attempt to disqualify them, but its not like they

had records like lee hasdell (9-14) or yuji nagata (0-2) or hong man choi (4-5) or jaideep singh (2-3)



and if Stipe is discredited for being 42.

Dan Henderson was the same age and in the cage a MW, when he stretched Fedor out.
Rendering him to shadow realm



Damn near killing him

 

[orca]

no memes of him getting ko'd or strangled
fought in usada and non usada era
3 generations of fighters lining one by one to have a shot but cant beat him

literaly the best and hardest resume
your favorite fighters resume would look like trash if you compare it to jones

 

[orca]

Fight iq, reach, eye pokes, and steroids are the keys to Jones success. You can probably put eyes pokes under fight IQ because he knew he would never get penalized for it by the pussy refs

theres a reason fans shouldnt vote on who wins fights
remember those delusional fans who voted pereira won against ankalaev?

imagine trying to defend pereira because hes a fan favorite
thats bs

facts doesnt care about your feelings or opinions

 

[Lee Danger]

if everyone is on steroids but only him got caught numerous times he must not be a genius at all.

 

[BowserJr]

Jones opponents were the top ranked guys in the UFC, the premiere mma organization whether your feelings like it or not.

You can attempt to disqualify them, but its not like they

had records like lee hasdell (9-14) or yuji nagata (0-2) or hong man choi (4-5) or jaideep singh (2-3)



and if Stipe is discredited for being 42.

Dan Henderson was the same age and in the cage a MW, when he stretched Fedor out.
Rendering him to shadow realm

View attachment 1093100

Damn near killing him

LoL the fact that you have to blatantly ignore facts to support your stance shows me that you've already conceded that your take is idiotic.

I already listed the top opponents of both Jon and Fedor in full detail. Fedor has more top opponents and legends while being smaller.

I also already listed Jons opponents that had horrible and losing records as well.

Stipe isn't discredited just for being 42. It's because he was 42 AND hadn't fought in half a decade, hadn't won in longer AND was retired.

Go ahead and keep posting the same list of names all you want I already tore those arguments to shreds

 

[CJrider]

You don't get into the GOAT conversation without uniquely high fight IQ. Jones is one of the best, if not the best, to use the tools he's got effectively to negate anything his opponents do. I don't think you'll find argument here.

Jones issues are father time, drugs/roids/hookers, and ducking the obvious best current fighter at HW.