Opinion Joe Rogan podcast, intellectually dishonest

[moosaev]

You're just deliberately gaslighting now.

Did these so-called "perversions" of Islamic faith, practice and history that Ali promotes exist within the Islamic world long before Ali was born? Yes or no?

I'm not talking about perversions, you keep falling back on pretending its a subjective disagreement. She's lying about objective facts, you're the one that's gas lighting here. Why do you think she's lying or misrepresenting historical facts about early Islam during the days of the Prophet?

 

[ultramanhyata]

I'm not talking about perversions, you keep falling back on pretending its a subjective disagreement. She's lying about objective facts, you're the one that's gas lighting here. Why do you think she's lying or misrepresenting historical facts about early Islam during the days of the Prophet?

You have now proven yourself disingenuous beyond reasonable doubt. Have a nice rest of your day.

 

[Gregolian]

You're just deliberately gaslighting now.

Did these so-called "perversions" of Islamic faith, practice and history that Ali promotes exist within the Islamic world long before Ali was born? Yes or no?

I'm still waiting to see if Zhabi actually said anything to counter what Ali said or if Zhabi was just gaslighting too claiming she was wrong without giving examples.

 

[moosaev]

You have now proven yourself disingenuous beyond reasonable doubt. Have a nice rest of your day.

You clearly have absolutely no idea what you're arguing about, seriously. You've deliberately ignored the core of my argument, you've NEVER addressed any specific point I made, all you're offering is broad generalities around Islamic doctrine. Hirsi Ali lied about very basic facts and you have no answer why. And you call me disingenuous? GTFO.

 

[ultramanhyata]

I'm still waiting to see if Zhabi actually said anything to counter what Ali said or if Zhabi was just gaslighting too claiming she was wrong without giving examples.

The problem ultimately isn't whether Ali is right or wrong. The problem is claiming Ali's positions are not taught in the professing Islamic world. That is the gaslighting part.

 

[moosaev]

I'm still waiting to see if Zhabi actually said anything to counter what Ali said or if Zhabi was just gaslighting too claiming she was wrong without giving examples.

 

[moosaev]

The problem ultimately isn't whether Ali is right or wrong. The problem is claiming Ali's positions are not taught in the professing Islamic world. That is the gaslighting part.

No her positions AREN'T taught in the professing Islamic world. Forced conversion is NOT taught, it's unambiguously not allowed in Islam. You're clueless about basic facts on Islam and you have the nerve to lecture on gaslighting and being disingenuous.

 

[ultramanhyata]

No her positions AREN'T taught in the professing Islamic world.

Oh. Right. Because those in the Islamic world teaching those positions aren't real Muslims!

Thanks for weighing in again, Mr. No True Scotsman.

 

[ultramanhyata]

For anyone who might be reading this thread with an open mind.

Here's a link to help you not fall prey to the dangerous gaslighting and disinformation that @moosaev is engaging in here.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-29008267

 

[moosaev]

Oh. Right. Because those in the Islamic world teaching those positions aren't real Muslims!

Thanks for weighing in again, Mr. No True Scotsman.

Hirsi Ali said that during the Medina period Islam changed from peaceful orientation to one of compulsion and forced conversion. Its objectively false
. Something that is universally taught in the Muslim world is that when the Prophet took over Mecca with his army, he specifically cautioned everyone that there is no compulsion in religion. This is a fact not an opinion. Hirsi Ali is lying through her teeth.

 

[moosaev]

For anyone who might be reading this thread with an open mind.

Here's a link to help you not fall prey to the dangerous gaslighting and disinformation that @moosaev is engaging in here.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-29008267

You're a real peace of shit man. You're deliberately twisting what i'm saying. Forced conversion is NOT taught as a doctrine in Islam, it doesn't mean it never happens. You're being deliberately misleading about this. Hirsi Ali is claiming that it is doctrinal and she's lying about basic facts in order to make that point.

 

[Gregolian]

I ain’t watching a 15 minute vid when al the guy does in the 5 minutes of him actually talking goes “she does XYZ and doesn’t do blah blah” without giving a counter to what Ali said.

 

[ultramanhyata]

You're a real peace of shit man. You're deliberately twisting what i'm saying. Forced conversion is NOT taught as a doctrine in Islam, it doesn't mean it never happens. You're being deliberately misleading about this. Hirsi Ali is claiming that it is doctrinal and she's lying about basic facts in order to make that point.

No her positions AREN'T taught in the professing Islamic world.

Pretty sure Pakistan is part of the Islamic world, bro. And as the BBC link itself testifies "forced conversion" is being taught and practiced as part of the Muslim faith by professing Muslims in Pakistan.

You've been outed. Please fuck off.

 

[Gregolian]

Pretty sure Pakistan is part of the Islamic world, bro. And as the BBC link itself testifies "forced conversion" is being taught and practiced as part of the Muslim faith by professing Muslims in Pakistan.

You've been outed. Please fuck off.

Didn’t Mohammad himself convert via the sword too?

 

[moosaev]

Didn’t Mohammad himself convert via the sword too?

No he didn't. There are verses in the Quran that specifically prohibit forced conversion.

 

[moosaev]

Pretty sure Pakistan is part of the Islamic world, bro. And as the BBC link itself testifies "forced conversion" is being taught and practiced as part of the Muslim faith by professing Muslims in Pakistan.

You've been outed. Please fuck off.

So does Westboro Baptist Church teachings qualify as Christian teachings? GTFO out of here with that dishonest horseshit. Certain fringe practices can be categorically classified as counter to Islamic doctrine when it goes against the grain of consensus opinion. Utterly disgusting level of dishonesty from you.

 

[Gregolian]

No he didn't. There are verses in the Quran that specifically prohibit forced conversion.

And yet history points to Mohammad going into towns and smashing the local religious idols and demanding people convert.

If he didn't convert via the sword why was there a massive military campaign that created an Empire that was on par with the Mongols, what Alexander the Great had, and Persia?

The 3 Abrahamic religions can all literally suck my ass. The Pagans of the world from the Helionistic Greeks, pre-Christian Romans, and the Norse as big western examples may have been conquering cocks that subjugated large swathes of people but they never forced people to convert religiously.

And it may not be via the sword but if the Islamic Empire showed up on your doorstep and the only way you could successfully conduct buisness was via being a Muslim like your rulers is it a surprise a ton of people converted just for self-preservation?

 

[Gregolian]

So does Westboro Baptist Church teachings qualify as Christian teachings? GTFO out of here with that dishonest horseshit. Utterly disgusting level of dishonesty from you.

Yes.

Just like the Catholics and their Crusades and willing-ness ot hide kiddie diddlers.

People can argue till the cows come home that what the WBC does isn't Christian but if you read the Old Testament and shit... God is a fucking dick to people he doesn't deem believers and doesn't exactly tell his followers via the book to not be dicks to non-believers in his place.

And yes, I am not capitalizing "his"/"him" and shit on purpose.

 

[ocfightfan]

You're a real peace of shit man. You're deliberately twisting what i'm saying. Forced conversion is NOT taught as a doctrine in Islam, it doesn't mean it never happens. You're being deliberately misleading about this. Hirsi Ali is claiming that it is doctrinal and she's lying about basic facts in order to make that point.

Right, we won't force you to convert, but if you are pagan we will kill you if you don't, and if you are a Jew or Christian you can live as a second class citizen under intense humiliation and paying a heavy protection tax.

 

[Bald1]

Islam needs a reformation. nuff said.

This is all that needs to be said. Whether it's a beheading due to the mere existence of cartoons, or crying about unequal representation on an atheists podcast, both instances illustrate an inability to share space with dissenting views by many within that particular community.

And no, not all. There's quite a few Muslims on this board who are only rolling their eyes at both the podcast, negative views of their religion, as well as the thread starters reaction to it. In other words practicing tolerance while being steadfast in their beliefs.