Opinion Joe Rogan podcast, intellectually dishonest

[Bald1]

You're asking me the same questions over and over and over, and I keep explaining why its an issue, and then you ask the same question. You're either an idiot or you're so caught up in your own narrative that you're not objectively reading any of my posts. And if that's the case, then there's no point in engaging with you plain and simple.

Which questions are those?

 

[moosaev]

Explain what did she lie about? Also provide the source for your claims please. Everyone is a liar so it's not surprise that she is also a liar because she's human like the rest of us. Your a liar to. You've lied before just like we all have.

I've lied before, but i've never told a lie about who I am, where i grew up, etc. Everyone exaggerates about their life and experiences but only con-men/women completely lie about who they are on a fundamental level.

I'll look for resources but it boils down to the fact she claimed she was caught up in the somali civil war, she was no where near somalia when that went down. She also lied about the circumstances of her upbringing. Personally i grew up upper middle class, i would NEVER claim i grew up poor, thats not something i would lie about. So her lies aren't normal.

 

[method115]

I've lied before, but i've never told a lie about who I am, where i grew up, etc. Everyone exaggerates about their life and experiences but only con-men/women completely lie about who they are on a fundamental level.

I'll look for resources but it boils down to the fact she claimed she was caught up in the somali civil war, she was no where near somalia when that went down. She also lied about the circumstances of her upbringing. Personally i grew up upper middle class, i would NEVER claim i grew up poor, thats not something i would lie about. So her lies aren't normal.

Yes but have you ever been forced to marry and then have sex with someone you didn't want to? Maybe if you were put in that situation your lies would be more extreme. It's easy as a man to sit in your house and act better than someone else when you don't have to lay on your back and have someone enter your body who you do not want inside of you. So what kind of lies would you come up with if you were about to have another man penetrate you? Would you still hold these holier than thou attitude? No I think you would say whatever it took to get out of that situation. All of these lies she came up with were to escape what I consider justified rape. She didn't want to marry that man and she didn't want to be with him and she fled. Her father then condemned her to hell because of it. If you want to blame anyone blame that garbage family that raised her to be like this. It takes a real garbage human being to condemn their own daughter to hell for leaving their husband and those are the people who raised her.

 

[AWilder]

The only imaginary friend I like is money. Wait, that's actually real.

it's real to me, dammit!

 

[ultramanhyata]

It's not a "no true scotsman" fallacy. Hirsi Ali is making claims that are objectively FALSE.

Yet there are thousands of modern-day imam's who teach the same thing and tens of millions of professing Muslims who believe it. Where is their "objectivity", bro??

 

[moosaev]

Yes but have you ever been forced to marry and then have sex with someone you didn't want to? Maybe if you were put in that situation your lies would be more extreme. It's easy as a man to sit in your house and act better than someone else when you don't have to lay on your back and have someone enter your body who you do not want inside of you. So what kind of lies would you come up with if you were about to have another man penetrate you? Would you still hold these holier than thou attitude? No I think you would say whatever it took to get out of that situation. All of these lies she came up with were to escape what I consider justified rape. She didn't want to marry that man and she didn't want to be with him and she fled. Her father then condemned her to hell because of it. If you want to blame anyone blame that garbage family that raised her to be like this. It takes a real garbage human being to condemn their own daughter to hell for leaving their husband and those are the people who raised her.

You're working on the assumption that all her lies were acts of self preservation, that's not true imo. She's profiting handsomely from this image as a beleaguered ex-Muslim woman fleeing into the warm arms of the liberal west. She's making millions off that story, that's an incentive to lie and embelish.

 

[goldennirvana]

Mehdi Hasan

The guy who called non-Muslims "animals"?

 

[moosaev]

Yet there are thousands of modern-day imam's who teach the same thing and tens of millions of professing Muslims who believe it. Where is their "objectivity", bro??

You're confusing things.There are plenty of things in Islamic doctrine that are open for interpretation, but she didn't touch any of that. She literally made up stuff in an effort to cast the most negative light possible. Your position seems to be that we shouldn't challenge outright lies being told about Islam because there are extremists out there that are doing worse stuff. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Consider the implications of what Hirsi Ali said, for some people her position will inevitably lead to the conclusion that Islam must be entirely removed from western society, that's how you get the Anders Breviks, the Quebec mosque shooter, New Zealand, etc. So many are radicalized by online rhetoric and lies that are pretty much identical to the stuff Hirsi Ali says. Its dangerous stuff and must be challenged. This idea that we should only be concerned about Muslim extremists is nonsense.

 

[method115]

You're working on the assumption that all her lies were acts of self preservation, that's not true imo. She's profiting handsomely from this image as a beleaguered ex-Muslim woman fleeing into the warm arms of the liberal west. She's making millions off that story, that's an incentive to lie and embelish.

Exactly it's not true IYO. You don't even know. Here's what we do know. That when she fled her husband, her father condemned her to suffer forever in hell. Now if her father is hoping that she suffers in hell for eternity what do you think that man would do to her if he got his way?

 

[SanchoMF]

Good on ol' Rogan for having people like her on the set.
To argue that she shouldn't be there is a first degree apologist trick : people like her are 1 against 1.000.000 and boy howdy are the pro-Islam "scholars" in the West a dishonest bunch.

Ayaan is much more brave than every any other Muslim scholar, apart from a very few reformers who are on par and willingly putting themselves on the spot for calling things like they are.
Her arguments also check out 98% of the time and the message is clear.

Most of the people debating or trying to deplatform her are just grabbing shit with tweezers because her words hit too close to home.
I wish there'd be more women like her but it's hard to have that much courage coming from her type of cultural background.
You're brainwashed to be a submissive to your family, husband and your religion. Not many have the brains or the courage to step out of it.

Good luck to her, she will need it.

 

[moosaev]

The guy who called non-Muslims "animals"?

he's apologized for those comments multiple times, i thought your type was against cancel culture?

 

[ultramanhyata]

You're confusing things.There are plenty of things in Islamic doctrine that are open for interpretation, but she didn't touch any of that. She literally made up stuff in an effort to cast the most negative light possible. Your position seems to be that we shouldn't challenge outright lies being told about Islam because there are extremists out there that are doing worse stuff. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Consider the implications of what Hirsi Ali said, for some people her position will inevitably lead to the conclusion that Islam must be entirely removed from western society, that's how you get the Anders Breviks, the Quebec mosque shooter, New Zealand, etc. So many are radicalized by online rhetoric and lies that are pretty much identical to the stuff Hirsi Ali says. Its dangerous stuff and must be challenged. This idea that we should only be concerned about Muslim extremists is nonsense.

It's sad how you want to make Ali the source of the dangerous "lie" and not the extremists who proclaim and defend the dangerous "lie" that Ali is simply conveying in order to, rightly, warn of the dangers it poses to civilized society.

 

[DoctorPablo]

Islam needs a reformation. nuff said.

Islam needs to be thrown in the trash.

 

[moosaev]

It's sad how you want to make Ali the source of the dangerous "lie" and not the extremists who proclaim and defend the dangerous "lie" that Ali is simply conveying in order to, rightly, warn of the dangers it poses to civilized society.

Dude, no offense but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about on this point. Extremists do not justify their violence based on the premise she suggested. She just fabricated a baseless argument that even extremists don't make. She's either egregiously misinformed on the facts, or she's lying. The point is that the implications of her lies is that people will draw the conclusion that Muslims and non Muslims CANNOT co-exist. Do you not understand how dangerous that is?

People are acting like i'm asking for her to be burned at the stake. My only point is that JRE should have other perspectives that can counter the misinformation that is being peddled about Islam. This has real world implications.

 

[goldennirvana]

he's apologized for those comments multiple times, i thought your type was against cancel culture?

That's not cancel culture - that's not allowing an extremist who supports violence into the mainstream.

Of course he "apologised" for those comments. He wanted to be accepted into the mainstream. Had he stood by those comments, he'd never have gotten to where he is now.

 

[moosaev]

That's not cancel culture - that's not allowing an extremist who supports violence into the mainstream.

Of course he "apologised" for those comments. He wanted to be accepted into the mainstream. Had he stood by those comments, he'd never have gotten to where he is now.

lmao, Mehdi Hasan is an exetremist? lol ok.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Dude, no offense but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about on this point. Extremists do not justify their violence based on the premise she suggested.

Yeah, I'm sure this wasn't what she was raised to believe. She just decided to invent a theory from whole cloth in order to lay the groundwork for a genocidal campaign against Islam.

You simply have no credibility when you try to pretend the Islamic doctrines and histories Ali is pushing back against didn't exist prior to her arrival on the scene.

 

[goldennirvana]

lmao, Mehdi Hasan is an exetremist? lol ok.

Calling non-Muslims animals is extreme, yes. And seeing as he believes his religion is "perfect" and he still follows that religion, there's no reason to believe he doesn't still hold those extreme views.

 

[moosaev]

Yeah, I'm sure this wasn't what she was raised to believe. She just decided to invent a theory from whole cloth in order to lay the groundwork for a genocidal campaign against Islam.

You simply have no credibility when you try to pretend the Islamic doctrines and histories Ali is pushing back against didn't exist prior to her arrival on the scene.

She's filling a market need in the same way that Diamond & Silk or Candace Owens are filling a market need. Do you think Candice Owens truly believes everything she says? There's a cottage industry for anti-Muslim rhetoric and thought, an ex-Muslim woman is the perfect conduit for such a message because of the perceived credibility it implies. You're so caught up in your anti-religion narrative that you're not even trying to honestly engage with the specific points i've made about her lies and disinformation, you're just resorting to generalities about Islamic doctrines.

 

[ultramanhyata]

She's filling a market need in the same way that Diamond & Silk or Candace Owens are filling a market need. There is a cottage industry for anti-Muslim rhetoric and thought, an ex-Muslim woman is the perfect conduit for such a message because of the perceived credibility it implies. You're so caught up in your anti-religion narrative that you're not even trying to honestly engage with the specific points i've made about her lies and disinformation, you're just resorting to generalities about Islamic doctrines.

You're just deliberately gaslighting now.

Did these so-called "perversions" of Islamic faith, practice and history that Ali promotes exist within the Islamic world long before Ali was born? Yes or no?