Crime Jeffrey Epstein Dead

[Hollywood Jack]

He could afford the sorts of lawyers that could PROBABLY get him released to house arrest even with these charges though I know they tried once and I THOUGHT bail got denied (could be wrong though).

I think the 72 hour hold and suicide watch are two separate things generally though. At least they were where I came from.

Of course his attorneys attempted to get him bail, but there was no fucking way that was going to happen. Any judge who gave him bail would have committed career suicide. Especially after they found foreign passports under assumed names with foreign addresses with his picture in them, dozens of loose diamonds worth millions each, mountains of cash, etc. And they already knew he had multiple private planes and properties all over the world. Obvious flight risk.

 

[PhitePhan]

It's not really conjecture in this discussion to say that the guards did not do their job properly. That's a point everyone agrees on, no matter if they're CTing or not. So we're left with explaining how that condition came about.

MCC union president Serene Gregg says that MCC is horribly understaffed, with people pulling lots of overtime shifts, even in positions they are not qualified or properly trained for:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...tlight-troubled-fed-prison-system/1986862001/

There is other reporting on this too, and Barr's outrage at "irregularities" we already know about. So the information we have points to a prison that was in really bad shape, wouldn't you agree?

How many suicides have occurred at the facility Epstein was in? If the answer is zero (as another poster has asserted), would that raise any concerns for you? I mean, the article you posted paints a picture of gross ineptitude over a number of facilities over a period of years... not exactly a strong argument for a "highly irregular" one-off suicide, right?

Also, you are referencing excuses from the very people and institution responsible for this event. Pretty convenient, right? Not even a little skeptical? Not only is it a convenient, "aw shucks," that displaces blame, it will inevitably lead to demands for higher funding!

As @MikeMcMann pointed out earlier, there are a number of questions that need to be answered... there must be a tipping point where the sheer number of "irregularities" becomes troubling in and of itself, I'm curious what that might be for you?

 

[Fawlty]

But if I want to really put on my CT hat he was taken out by the same people who took out the DA that was investigating Sandusky years ago.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Gricar

Yo that's a hell of a hat lol. The guy was googling how to destroy a hard drive and laptops in rivers, and he destroyed his hard drive and threw his laptop in a river yeah? I think he may just have done it to himself.

 

[Happy Man]

Werent all the girls 16 and 17?

In this thread I’ve given news reports where he solicited girls as young as 8.

I’m sure he did the entire age spectrum. But wouldn’t be caught at parties with them that young. That’s his personal menu I’m sure when only his inner circle is around

 

[Happy Man]

FWIW, Julie K. Brown, the lead investigative journalist on the Miami Herald series that blew the Epstein case wide open again, believes that Epstein manipulated the situation in order to get off suicide watch. And yes, his attorneys were also arguing to take him off suicide watch.

Extraction!

They used the previous “attempt” as cover.

He was wheeled out to freedom

 

[Hollywood Jack]

Werent all the girls 16 and 17?

No. Many were, but they were as young as 14. But you do raise a good point. Epstein wasn't a phile in the clinical sense. His particular chronophilia was ephebophilia rather than philia. He was still a sick prick who deserved punishment, though. He held some girls down and raped them. That's unconscionable even when they're adults.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronophilia

 

[Fawlty]

How many suicides have occurred at the facility Epstein was in? If the answer is zero (as another poster has asserted), would that raise any concerns for you? I mean, the article you posted paints a picture of gross ineptitude over a number of facilities over a period of years... not exactly a strong argument for a "highly irregular" one-off suicide, right?

Also, you are referencing excuses from the very people and institution responsible for this event. Pretty convenient, right? Not even a little skeptical? Not only is it a convenient, "aw shucks," that displaces blame, it will inevitably lead to demands for higher funding!

As @MikeMcMann pointed out earlier, there are a number of questions that need to be answered... there must be a tipping point where the sheer number of "irregularities" becomes troubling in and of itself, I'm curious what that might be for you?

No, it wouldn't concern me if the prison had a history of no suicides (btw I've not seen this claim supported). What concerns me are the conditions when Epstein was there, and the facts of this case- like that his lawyers got him off suicide watch, so a suicidal man made it through the system's safeguard with powerful legal help. What was the judge's rationale (for instance was he concerned about violating Epstein's rights in a super important case)? Were his lawyers aware that he was suicidal, or did Epstein lie to them in order to protect them? That's a question to answer. In any case, we already know that suicidal people who have recently tried to kill themselves are quite likely to kill themselves.

No I'm not really skeptical of the local union president's claim, since that's really easy to verify. If he was lying about under-staffing and poor funding, we would find that out.

No, there's not a tipping point for "irregularities" that leads to any particular conclusion. There's just evidence and good reasoning from the evidence. "Yo, shit was cray-cray, therefore my theory is right!"

 

[KnightTemplar]

Werent all the girls 16 and 17?

Not sure. But the, People's Creep Who Slept With Under-Age(In Some States/Countries)Teenage Girls doesn't really scan

 

[all caps]

Lmao at all the people in here getting drug into the muck by the professional muck draggers

 

[KnightTemplar]

That's Terry Pratchett my man, but i'm so happy to see Douglas Adams name it is something he would have written as well.

On second thoughts, you may be right. Ironic, since Pratchett was one of my all time favourite authors. I've read almost every Discworld novel multiple times.

 

[Happy Man]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9622107/jeffrey-epstein-eight-year-old-girls-sexually-abuse/

He asks for 8 year olds. Gonna have to assume he was raping children of all ages.

Remember the Clinton foundation trying to flee Haiti with all those little kids?

Where do you think they end up?

We need to overthrow our government and send our military spy assets against this man and his mossad handlers.

 

[franklinstower]

Lmao at all the people in here getting drug into the muck by the professional muck draggers

Are the ones arguing for a CT or against it professional much draggers IYO? I'm not looking to debate you, just curious.

 

[PhitePhan]

No, it wouldn't concern me if the prison had a history of no suicides (btw I've not seen this claim supported). What concerns me are the conditions when Epstein was there...

I've not seen this claim supported either, purely hypothetical. You are dismissing the impact of the very conditions being proposed as leading to his death (that is what the article you cited covered), these conditions weren't new and have relevance to history and this possible precedent. You can't say, "well things were so bad, it was inevitable he would kill himself," and then dismiss how bad these conditions have been for the past several years when nobody (possibly) completed suicide.

...and the facts of this case- like that his lawyers got him off suicide watch, so a suicidal man made it through the system's safeguard with powerful legal help. What was the judge's rationale (for instance was he concerned about violating Epstein's rights in a super important case)?

This is probably a dumb question, but what evidence do we have that he was suicidal?

Were his lawyers aware that he was suicidal, or did Epstein lie to them in order to protect them? That's a question to answer. In any case, we already know that suicidal people who have recently tried to kill themselves are quite likely to kill themselves.

Source? A successful suicide attempt is no easy task, even in the community with access to many more possible means.

"According to the 2008 National Survey on Drug Use and Health3, in the US there were 8.3m adults who had serious thoughts of committing suicide, and 2.3m who had actually made plans to commit to suicide. Of those, 1.1m actually attempted suicide, but only just over 33,000 succeeded. Which would make the ratio of failure to success 33 to 1." http://lostallhope.com/suicide-statistics

No I'm not really skeptical of the local union president's claim, since that's really easy to verify. If he was lying about under-staffing and poor funding, we would find that out.

So we need to have an independent investigation into these claims, right? Even if true, you are making a leap to say that these excuses (offered by the very folks implicated in the crime- whatever crime it may be) are what led to his death... particularly if these problems have not led to any other such deaths, make sense?

No, there's not a tipping point for "irregularities" that leads to any particular conclusion. There's just evidence and good reasoning from the evidence.

Fair enough... it seems to me that we are going to have to wait and see what details emerge.

 

[K-Bag]

We need to get that Ace Ventura lawyer dude from the videos games to investigate this! He'll get to the bottom of this no matter who is at the top!!

 

[all caps]

Are the ones arguing for a CT or against it professional much draggers IYO? I'm not looking to debate you, just curious.

Everyone will have to figure this out for themselves.

 

[helltoupee]

I think you need to make a distinction here though.

hanging yourself in a normal cell or generally is very easy. As you say you just need to restrict the blood flow to the head, resist the panic urge that will flair up to remove whatever is doing it, and you will soon black out and then die. The rear naked choke everyone has learned from MMA, held too long, often by cops or guys in street fights, shows you how quickly someone can die from that. If you have a belt around your waist or some sheets and you simply pull them tight around your neck, even gently to close off blood flow you will quickly start to feel light headed, then like you will pass out, maybe a few seconds of panic to react and remove it, then pass out and death. Easy.

But the prison has what they call suicide proof cells. Meaning you will find nothing within the cell to aid you. And you cannot just do it with your own hands. the cells are padded also making an attempt to perhaps break your own neck through violent trauma unlikely. You would likely injure yourself and be forced to stop long before you could do a fatal injury.


It is why prisons like this use the term 'suicide proof' cells and boast about their zero % suicide rate despite housing consistently inmates highly motivated to do the deed.

I generally agree with everything you said except a few points : there is no 'panic urge' as you call it when someone is attempting to die by compression of the carotid artery - you quickly black out. Second, it doesn't take much. A convict can use a plastic spoon or a pencil as a tourniquet with just a little bit of cloth and hopefully something to put right in the area of the artery - like a knot. You put the spoon in front so as the tension mounts, it's blocked from spinning open by your chin and chest.

Not sure about this particular situation, but incarcerated people find ways around everything.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Lol.

This thread demonstrates why the president is willing to send out unfounded murder accusations against other presidents on Twitter. There is an entire group of supporters who are so warped that they don’t even see a problem with the leader of the free world accusing former presidents of murder with absolutely no evidence.

And the left have been insinuating that Trump's DOJ had him knocked off. Tis the wsy of the world now

 

[MikeMcMann]

It's very interesting seeing the biases at play here... the folks that push "nothing to see here" are using thinking that is just as flawed, if not more so, than the "conspiracy nuts." Fascinating.

Ya I agree with this and think it is almost equally as extreme to be at either end whether acting as if this is a clear CT, or acting as if its clearly not.

WHy not let the info come out and be open to what it tells us.

 

[Quipling]

Of course his attorneys attempted to get him bail, but there was no fucking way that was going to happen. Any judge who gave him bail would have committed career suicide. Especially after they found foreign passports under assumed names with foreign addresses with his picture in them, dozens of loose diamonds worth millions each, mountains of cash, etc. And they already knew he had multiple private planes and properties all over the world. Obvious flight risk.

Article III judges have the sturdiest tenure that exists. Not really such a thing as career suicide for them.

 

[Prex32]

With the news he was no longer on suicide watch, it changes everything. Its pretty easy to kill yourself in jail if you want to.

technically maybe, but otherwise it's not easy, except he has been given some heavy depressants in his food or similar.