Crime Jeffrey Epstein Dead

[JonesBones]

Ya, someone like Epstein and his appetites can become known to various intelligence agencies who can see far more use in using him, then busting him. He becomes an 'asset' and can provide all sorts of compromising information on many of the worlds most powerful people.

There should be no one suggesting the idea that Epstein was compromised by one or more of the worlds intelligence agencies and being used as an asset is crazy or off limits to consider at this point.

So you're down with the Mossad theory too. Nut. Or are you still JAQing off?

 

[PhitePhan]

The fact that he tried once, unsuccessfully and was taken off the watch and wasn't sent to the fucking mental wing of a local hospital after the attempt is bizarre to me unless the state he was in has different regulations than Washington has.

Washington if an inmate attempts suicide be it hanging, trying to drown themselves, cutting themselves they're dragged to the local hospital and put on an at least 72 hour hold and when they're brought back to the jail they're never taken off suicide watch. Like, ever.

Jails and prisons typically have that set up (acute mental health for suicidal patients) onsite.

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

The fact that he tried once, unsuccessfully and was taken off the watch and wasn't sent to the fucking mental wing of a local hospital after the attempt is bizarre to me unless the state he was in has different regulations than Washington has.

Washington if an inmate attempts suicide be it hanging, trying to drown themselves, cutting themselves they're dragged to the local hospital and put on an at least 72 hour hold and when they're brought back to the jail they're never taken off suicide watch. Like, ever.

Yeah I know for normal citizens it's hard to hold somebody past the 72 hour self harm evaluation.

Epstein was in custody but had not yet stood trial. Could they keep him on suicide watch indefinitely? Could his lawyers fight to get him taken off suicide watch?

 

[Hollywood Jack]

I'm generally not a conspiracy guy but I don't get why the guy would off himself. With his money, he likely would have walked.

Nah. Too much heat this time. He was fucked.

 

[Gregolian]

Yeah I know for normal citizens it's hard to hold somebody past the 72 hour self harm evaluation.

Epstein was in custody but had not yet stood trial. Could they keep him on suicide watch indefinitely? Could his lawyers fight to get him taken off suicide watch?

He could afford the sorts of lawyers that could PROBABLY get him released to house arrest even with these charges though I know they tried once and I THOUGHT bail got denied (could be wrong though).

I think the 72 hour hold and suicide watch are two separate things generally though. At least they were where I came from.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

No, he wouldn't have and you are talking out your ass.

"I'm not a conspiracy guy, but..." Is is similar to "I'm not a racist, but.."

You nut.

Honestly, don't you think you've done enough concern trolling in this thread already?

 

[Fawlty]

Could they keep him on suicide watch indefinitely? Could his lawyers fight to get him taken off suicide watch?

It was reported that his lawyers did just that. Seen it reported a few places now.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/j...-watch-be-lifted-at-manhattan-jail-2019-08-13

 

[PhitePhan]

Because we know the guards were not doing the job properly in any case. That's strongly indicative of there being problems with leadership, staffing, funding, and the like.

You are offering nothing but conjecture that fits your worldview. It can be one of the above (or all of them if need be), but it can't be that he was a high profile guy that had a "hit" put out on him? Also, you seem to be assuming the your above explanations, do you have any evidence?

A lot of this dumb conspiracy theory relies on there being great control of the prison and a "convenient" lapse. The far more likely explanation is that the procedures were in lapse prior to this event, and that there wasn't the great control of prison conditions, creating the conditions for easier suicide. That's just how causality and probability work most of the time.

I am halfway on board with this. Yes, if we find that this is par for the course (inmates moved off suicide watch prematurely, inmates left alone for hours at a time, etc.) then you have the beginnings of an argument. One post here already made the claim that Epstein was the first suicide at this prison. If true, there goes one of your assumptions. What would you say if this prison has a stellar record and no history of suicides?

From my experience working in correctional mental health, there IS great control of prison conditions, expecially for mentally ill folks. It is a highly scrutinized field (rightly so) and there are a number of protocols in place to avoid this very type of incident. The reality is, if these protocols were systematically broken/ignored then we must look at more than simple incompetence (which is your theory, right?).

 

[Gregolian]

It was reported that his lawyers did just that. Seen it reported a few places now.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/j...-watch-be-lifted-at-manhattan-jail-2019-08-13

I get his lawyers filed the motion for it and apparently it was granted by the Judge...

BUT....

Usually even if someone is now OFF suicide watch but has tried once before the detention facilities will still check on them a bit more than they would with regular inmates in for like petty theft and shit. Plus this was a federal facility.

 

[TheComebackKid]

it is hard to see this as a series of oblivious mistakes but willful, allowed to happen mistakes because 'f*ck that guy'... ya I could buy that.

<{cruzshake}>

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

He could afford the sorts of lawyers that could PROBABLY get him released to house arrest even with these charges though I know they tried once and I THOUGHT bail got denied (could be wrong though).

I think the 72 hour hold and suicide watch are two separate things generally though. At least they were where I came from.

From what I understand the big determination on bail is the flight risk and Epstein was the epitome of a flight risk. Multiple (including forged) passports, extreme wealth and a private jet.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

Tim pool has a video today citing CBS report that there was shrieking and shouting coming from his cell.

I still believe he was extracted and is drinking champagne with his handlers

I saw that video too. But I doubt there would be any shrieking and shouting if they were doing him a favor and extracting him. The possible scenario that Tim Pool laid out, where two guys are choking Epstein while pretending that they found him and are calling for help, seems plausible. I just don't see any realistic scenario where Epstein is worth more to someone alive than dead at this point. You can't be more exposed than that guy was. He long outlived his usefulness. He was a dead man walking the minute he stepped off his private plane and was immediately arrested. He didn't get a tip off this time because he was already on the outs. He should have stayed overseas in a country without extradition, but the bastard didn't see it coming.

 

[Fawlty]

You are offering nothing but conjecture that fits your worldview. It can be one of the above (or all of them if need be), but it can't be that he was a high profile guy that had a "hit" put out on him? Also, you seem to be assuming the your above explanations, do you have any evidence?



I am halfway on board with this. Yes, if we find that this is par for the course (inmates moved off suicide watch prematurely, inmates left alone for hours at a time, etc.) then you have the beginnings of an argument. One post here already made the claim that Epstein was the first suicide at this prison. If true, there goes one of your assumptions. What would you say if this prison has a stellar record and no history of suicides?

From my experience working in correctional mental health, there IS great control of prison conditions, expecially for mentally ill folks. It is a highly scrutinized field (rightly so) and there are a number of protocols in place to avoid this very type of incident. The reality is, if these protocols were systematically broken/ignored then we must look at more than simple incompetence (which is your theory, right?).

It's not really conjecture in this discussion to say that the guards did not do their job properly. That's a point everyone agrees on, no matter if they're CTing or not. So we're left with explaining how that condition came about.

MCC union president Serene Gregg says that MCC is horribly understaffed, with people pulling lots of overtime shifts, even in positions they are not qualified or properly trained for:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...tlight-troubled-fed-prison-system/1986862001/

There is other reporting on this too, and Barr's outrage at "irregularities" we already know about. So the information we have points to a prison that was in really bad shape, wouldn't you agree?

 

[PainIsLIfe]

He was the People's Peadophile…

Werent all the girls 16 and 17?

 

[JonesBones]

Honestly, don't you think you've done enough concern trolling in this thread already?

Are the people who said intelligence services the Mossad are involved, trolling? This whole thread is one big troll by conspiracy nuts.

 

[Gregolian]

From what I understand the big determination on bail is the flight risk and Epstein was the epitome of a flight risk. Multiple (including forged) passports, extreme wealth and a private jet.

Oh I get why bail got denied, I'm just still sitting here a tad confused why with the extra attention from the profile of the case he wasn't watched more.

 

[Scerpi]

I get his lawyers filed the motion for it and apparently it was granted by the Judge...

BUT....

Usually even if someone is now OFF suicide watch but has tried once before the detention facilities will still check on them a bit more than they would with regular inmates in for like petty theft and shit. Plus this was a federal facility.

Lawyer:

Epstein:

 

[Hollywood Jack]

The biggest question is why was he taken off suicide watch?

Were his lawyers arguing to get him out of suicide watch? Was there a lack of staff to keep him on Suicide Watch? Did somebody at the jail specifically remove him from suicide watch?

FWIW, Julie K. Brown, the lead investigative journalist on the Miami Herald series that blew the Epstein case wide open again, believes that Epstein manipulated the situation in order to get off suicide watch. And yes, his attorneys were also arguing to take him off suicide watch.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

The fact that he tried once, unsuccessfully and was taken off the watch and wasn't sent to the fucking mental wing of a local hospital after the attempt is bizarre to me unless the state he was in has different regulations than Washington has.

Washington if an inmate attempts suicide be it hanging, trying to drown themselves, cutting themselves they're dragged to the local hospital and put on an at least 72 hour hold and when they're brought back to the jail they're never taken off suicide watch. Like, ever.

I get the impression that Washington State is generally less corrupt than states like New York and Florida. I've never even been to Washington but I've lived in Florida for years and I also had a property in New York and did a lot of business there. And beyond corruption, there's also a lot of bureaucracy and entrenched systems in states like New York that are almost impossible to change.

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

FWIW, Julie K. Brown, the lead investigative journalist on the Miami Herald series that blew the Epstein case wide open again, believes that Epstein manipulated the situation in order to get off suicide watch. And yes, his attorneys were also arguing to take him off suicide watch.

It seems like the most likely scenario to me.

We know from reporting the last 2 years by the Times that the Federal Prisons the Federal Prisons have been understaffed for over a year and the problem was just getting worse.

Epstein had the money and lawyers to get him off Suicide Watch.

He tried to kill himself before and that makes sense to me. He went from living the life of the Ultra Rich to most likely spending the rest of his life behind bars.

But if I want to really put on my CT hat he was taken out by the same people who took out the DA that was investigating Sandusky years ago.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Gricar