It was Khamzat's fault the fight was boring, and that's OK if he only cares about winning

[Alpha_T83]

I keep seeing this massive cognitive dissonance on these forums from Khamzat fans, so I want to make this point crystal clear:

1) Khamzat is perfectly within his rights in the current rules to lay and pray to a boring win, if DDP can't stop him.
2) However, it is still his fault the fight was boring, because he completely controlled the fight and refused to take risks to finish it.

This is a CLASSIC example of "You are free to make whatever choices you want, but you are not free from the consequences of your actions." Anyone that thinks otherwise is suffering from cognitive dissonance, because they don't want the boring fight to be Khamzat's fault.

 

[chinarice]

The difference between this fight and Volk / Islam 1 not being "boring" is because Volk posed a skillset and unwillingness to just lay on his back doing fuck all. Imagine that.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

Alpha


Although i agree on your points about you can win and be effective but also be boring in the process...

This concept isn't mutually exclusive to MMA...and it doesn't need to change...nor do the rules...when tiger woods was dominating Golf
...nobody said hey we gotta change the rules dudes too good...or when a superbowl team wins the game by a big spread early...nobody says ah that game was boring ...they should change the rules so the other team can always be close to winning too ..



Same applies here...this is sports, sometimes it just isnt the most exciting of games but its still a valid contest and win ... Khamzat will pay for his choices by losing some crowd support and probably adding more pressure on himself for his next fight as UFC staff and fans will only expect more out of him moving forward...

It was on Dricus to improve the position...Khamzat already got to one of the most dominant positions in the sport, he would actually need to take a step back positionally in order to change positions...so Dricus being stuck there so long was on him...his coach said "they didnt train the crucifix" ...like what?? This isnt a new position ... simply put Dricus wasn't prepared... Khamzat was

 

[Takes Two To Tango]

I keep seeing this massive cognitive dissonance on these forums from Khamzat fans, so I want to make this point crystal clear:

1) Khamzat is perfectly within his rights in the current rules to lay and pray to a boring win, if DDP can't stop him.
2) However, it is still his fault the fight was boring, because he completely controlled the fight and refused to take risks to finish it.

This is a CLASSIC example of "You are free to make whatever choices you want, but you are not free from the consequences of your actions." Anyone that thinks otherwise is suffering from cognitive dissonance, because they don't want the boring fight to be Khamzat's fault.

Well said.

 

[chinarice]

Well said.

Minus the factually incorrect statements, well said lol 500 strikes = lay and pray.

Pretty sure sherdog literally have no clue what the term lay and pray means anymore.

The only lay and pray was done by DDP. Laying on his back and praying he doesn't get finished.

 

[Takes Two To Tango]

Minus the factually incorrect statements, well said lol 500 strikes = lay and pray.

Pretty sure sherdog literally have no clue what the term lay and pray means anymore.

lol oh ok. Fair enough.

I'm a huge Khamzat fan btw.

 

[Alpha_T83]

Minus the factually incorrect statements, well said lol 500 strikes = lay and pray.

Pretty sure sherdog literally have no clue what the term lay and pray means anymore.

The only lay and pray was done by DDP. Laying on his back and praying he doesn't get finished.

The definition of lay and pray is well established on these forums going back literally two decades. But yea, have fun trying to redefine that one.

Khamzat utterly dominated DDP in the wrestling department and did near zero damage to him. As others on these forums have said, DDP could have taken another 1000 of those strikes.

 

[ThaiSexPills]

Minus the factually incorrect statements, well said lol 500 strikes = lay and pray.

Pretty sure sherdog literally have no clue what the term lay and pray means anymore.

The only lay and pray was done by DDP. Laying on his back and praying he doesn't get finished.

Khamzat laid on top of him, did zero damage and coasted to an easy win without ever really pushing the pace or trying to advance. That is textbook lay and pray.

The fact he threw over 500 strikes and only 30 of them were significant strikes is INSANE. 21 min of control too, on a totally overwhelmed opponent. This is literally the worst example of lay and pray ever

 

[chinarice]

The definition of lay and pray is well established on these forums going back literally two decades. But yea, have fun trying to redefine that one.

Khamzat utterly dominated DDP in the wrestling department and did near zero damage to him. As others on these forums have said, DDP could have taken another 1000 of those strikes.

His swollen face and busted up lip says otherwise.

Next time do something to change the course of the fight. Other fighters don't let shit like that happen hence why the fights don't end up being boring. Khamzat was working. What was DDP doing?

 

[chinarice]

Khamzat laid on top of him, did zero damage and coasted to an easy win without ever really pushing the pace or trying to advance. That is textbook lay and pray.

The fact he threw over 500 strikes and only 30 of them were significant strikes is INSANE. 21 min of control too, on a totally overwhelmed opponent. This is literally the worst example of lay and pray ever

Did zero damage? You guys are blind. DDP's face doesn't look like that

Literally not what lay and pray is lol Sean Sherk fights were what lay and pray was

 

[chinarice]

DDP in the post fight basically said I had 2 choices, be on my back or him be on mine.

Guess which one would have made the fight more exciting? It's literally the only chance he had but he knew that the odds of him getting finished were greater there so he chose the safer option, just like khamzat did.

 

[Alpha_T83]

His swollen face and busted up lip says otherwise.

Next time do something to change the course of the fight. Other fighters don't let shit like that happen hence why the fights don't end up being boring. Khamzat was working. What was DDP doing?

DDP was defending takedowns/submissions like I've never seen before. If you were paying attention, his defensive BJJ was actually surprisingly good beyond his non-existent guard. He knew exactly how to tuck his head to avoid damage, and Khamzat wasn't able to sink in any submissions beyond the barely 2 rear naked chokes some people credit him with -- while he is officially credited with ZERO submission attempts to DDPs 1.

In the end, Khamzat's wrestling was just too good. He honestly showed a level of wrestling I'm not sure we've seen in the octagon, except from perhaps Khabib. That's a compliment to Khamzat's skill. Sadly, he chose to simply hold onto positions once he got them. It's hard to get a guy off of you that is determined to hold you in place like that.

Again, Khamzat easily could have attempted multiple kimuras from the crucifix, but he refused to take that risk because he knew DDP could and probably would reverse him. You have to give up your balance to take that risk and finish the submission. Khamzat could have opened up with more strikes and elbows to do real damage, but that would give DDP opporunities as well.

Nothing I say will ever convince you, because you've already decided that you don't want the boring fight to be Khamzat's fault, even if you're wrong. You're like a flat* earther in that regard -- no real point in trying to convince you of the truth.

 

[chinarice]

lol oh ok. Fair enough.

I'm a huge Khamzat fan btw.

I'm a huge Dricus fan BTW. Does that part make a difference?

 

[chinarice]

DDP was defending takedowns/submissions like I've never seen before. If you were paying attention, his defensive BJJ was actually surprisingly good beyond his non-existent guard. He knew exactly how to tuck his head to avoid damage, and Khamzat wasn't able to sink in any submissions beyond the barely 2 rear naked chokes some people credit him with -- while he is officially credited with ZERO submission attempts to DDPs 1.

In the end, Khamzat's wrestling was just too good. He honestly showed a level of wrestling I'm not sure we've seen in the octagon, except from perhaps Khabib. That's a compliment to Khamzat's skill. Sadly, he chose to simply hold onto positions once he got them. It's hard to get a guy off of you that is determined to hold you in place like that.

Again, Khamzat easily could have attempted multiple kimuras from the crucifix, but he refused to take that risk because he knew DDP could and probably would reverse him. You have to give up your balance to take that risk and finish the submission. Khamzat could have opened up with more strikes and elbows to do real damage, but that would give DDP opporunities as well.

But nothing I say to you will ever convince you, because you've already decided that you don't want the boring fight to be Khamzat's fault, even if you're wrong. You're like a flat* earther in that regard -- no real point in trying to convince you of the truth.

I want it to be both their faults because that's factually correct but you don't want to admit that DDP's lack of choosing to get back up by any means necessary was also the problem. He admitted in the post fight what he could have done but refused because of the risk. He chose doing nothing instead.

 

[Takes Two To Tango]

I'm a huge Dricus fan BTW. Does that part make a difference?

Not really. lol I get your point thanks.

 

[HatKick]

I don't mind what Khamzat did. Biggest fight of his life, lotsa money on the line. Secure the win, worry about being entertaining another time. No mainstream sport requires players and teams to put on a show and take unnecessary risk while beating a worldclass opponent and winning a friggin world championship, like that isn't hard enough in itself. It's kind of an unfair and unrealistic demand.

 

[Why did you]

Its the main point of the game ,to win.
So seems that khamzat knows his shit

 

[Alpha_T83]

I want it to be both their faults because that's factually correct but you don't want to admit that DDP's lack of choosing to get back up by any means necessary was also the problem. He admitted in the post fight what he could have done but refused because of the risk. He chose doing nothing instead.

Except there's nothing DDP could have really done. He was doing everything he could except submit.

You're basically saying you expect a guy to tap out, or just stop defending and allow Khamzat to submit him. That's nonsense.

 

[Alpha_T83]

I don't mind what Khamzat did. Biggest fight of his life, lotsa money on the line. Secure the win, worry about being entertaining another time. No mainstream sport requires players and teams to put on a show and take unnecessary risk while beating a worldclass opponent and winning a friggin world championship, like that isn't hard enough in itself. It's kind of an unfair and unrealistic demand.

Yea, I think you nailed it. Khamzat really cared about winning that belt and didn't want to take any risks.

But people are giving him shit because he talks a big game about "I don't care, I'm gonna kill that guy" and then goes and does that. If Khamzat would just shut his mouth and be humble like GSP, people would give him a lot less shit.

 

[Oddmonster]

Alpha


Although i agree on your points about you can win and be effective but also be boring in the process...

This concept isn't mutually exclusive to MMA...and it doesn't need to change...nor do the rules...when tiger woods was dominating Golf
...nobody said hey we gotta change the rules dudes too good...or when a superbowl team wins the game by a big spread early...nobody says ah that game was boring ...they should change the rules so the other team can always be close to winning too ..



Same applies here...this is sports, sometimes it just isnt the most exciting of games but its still a valid contest and win ... Khamzat will pay for his choices by losing some crowd support and probably adding more pressure on himself for his next fight as UFC staff and fans will only expect more out of him moving forward...

It was on Dricus to improve the position...Khamzat already got to one of the most dominant positions in the sport, he would actually need to take a step back positionally in order to change positions...so Dricus being stuck there so long was on him...his coach said "they didnt train the crucifix" ...like what?? This isnt a new position ... simply put Dricus wasn't prepared... Khamzat was

Many other sports (Baseball, Basketball, Soccer, American Football, etc, and yes, also Golf) has changed their rules because their old rules made the game unfair or boring. And UFC is entertainment, and holding people down for 25 minutes is not especially entertaining. And we are seeing more and more high level wrestlers enter the UFC, so we will see more of this. I am pretty sure a lot of olympic wrestlers watched that fight and though "Huh, I can become champ just by holding people down? Sign me up".

And yes, you could put the blame on Dricus, but the fact is - he was dominated. He could do nothing. So should the guy who was dominating maybe try to go for a finish? I understand why he did not - the rules allows him to play it safe and "coast" to a victory.

It was pretty boring to watch, that's for sure.