It kinda pisses me off how a guy like Bruce Lee gets more credit and recognition than real fighters

The Big Bang said:
Did ghost Bruce Lee knock up your girlfriend or something.

Geez.
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Lolololol.

No, but he convinced millions to believe nonsense, far worse crime.

No hard feelings, just come up with an actual argument next time. lol
 
A lot of people, all over the world, started martial arts because of Bruce Lee and his movies. He deserves a lot of credit for that, alone.
 
Kareem Abdul Jabbar is not impressed by his performance.
iAF0mAa.gif
 
You're hating on a guy that's been dead for 50 years. Just let it go.
 
Hulk Hogan, The Rock, and John Cena get a lot more credit than the any legit wrestler.
 
listrahtes said:
<Lmaoo>
This is so comical wrong but I am done arguing about it.

Americans and their fascination with actors is really mind numbing. This is an american phenomenon. The worshiping of celebrities. It has created monsters like the Kardashians and Trump were you really think a society tries to lobotomize itself (not that Trumps opponents are much better this is not vs. republicans).

Lee was great at marketing some asian mumbojumbo philosophy he copied and never lived by himself. It was more important to make money and live the good life. Nowhere better than with ancient asian secrets for deluded hippie folks.

Its so funny when you hear people talk about that there wasnt much high level MA in his time so he had to create it, while there were a ton of killers in several martial arts well known and some also cross trained. But he HAD to create his own MA you know because <Lmaoo> and for sure never to compete in anything substantial.

You want a real pioneer for MMA and not some joke:

Take John Bluming for example. Now that is someone who deeply influenced stand up and development of studying different styles. A true martial artist.

Lee would have gotten a reality check the first time he would have entered serious boxing / wrestling etc training but he avoided that like the plague.

In the end its the story about a poor guy who made something out of himself but had a deep inferiority complex so he had to overstate everything and could never face a real threat in martial arts. In other terms he could never really learn anything. His fight with annother "grand master" was just a small brawl with a waiter who trained a little. Thats the scale Lees real talent was.

But people want to believe. Oh man talk about mass delusion :)
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The amount of MMA fighters and other famous martial artists he influenced is all that matters to me. You can't deny his influence on many people. That's why millions of people look up to him. It doesn't even if he didn't fight competitively his impact to the culture and society is the key. I'll leave to that.
 
MXZT said:
The amount of MMA fighters and other famous martial artists he influenced is all that matters to me. You can't deny his influence on many people. That's why millions of people look up to him. It doesn't even if he didn't fight competitively his impact to the culture and society is the key. I'll leave to that.
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Its about martial arts and he has done shit for martial arts. Guess I should also look up to Stallone as a martial artist because he influenced a lot of people with Rocky.

Lee was influental in the astronomic rise of bullshido gyms all around the US. The US always had great MAs who really developed the art. Like in that time frame Muhammad Ali, Sugar Ray Robinson...etc.

If you want actors with ma ability go for Don The Dragon Wilson who really had MA knowledge. Or on the lighter TMA side Loren Avedon but he is alsojust an actor with some MA knowledge.

but its fun he can even shot crossbows!!!!!



Look at these skills WOHAAAAA (love these trashy action flicks)
 
marvinparsons said:
I mean modern BJJ / MMA grappling.
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Of course Bruce didn't know about modern MMA. But he was a student of martial arts. Plural. He was open to new ideas. He stole the Ali shuffle from, well, Ali, for example.

You don't hold it against Galileo because he knew little about cosmos by today's standards. What makes Galileo great, in my opinion, isn't that he was right about heliocentricism, but that he thought observation should trump scripture. That was heresy in his days.

I'm not comparing Bruce to Galileo. I only illustrate that there are other things than knowledge.

I find Bruce overrated. I find him not overrated in other aspects. He was huge. Conor and Brad Pitt are stars. Bruce was a supernova.

There was a territorial dispute between China and Japan over the Diaoyu Islands in 1996. One activist from Hong Kong was interviewed while in a Japanese hospital. He said he wanted to return to Hong Kong wearing a traditional Chinese dress. Or a Bruce Lee t-shirt.

That's the symbolism Bruce carries. There are other people who carry as much political symbolism, of course. But Bruce was and is so much more. Bruce is the most famous movie star that ever lived, the most famous martial artist that ever lived, a symbol of Chinese nationalism, a symbol of anti-imperialism, and more, all rolled in one person. It would be silly to say that such a person, whoever he is, is overrated.

That doesn't mean I buy into Bruce as some kind of mythical fighters. But, again, that Bruce wouldn't win UFC 1 with the martial arts skills and knowledge he had when he died in 1973 doesn't take anything away from him. Even serious practitioners of Bruce's own fight system, Jeet Kune Do, have made changes to the system and improved it. Bruce divided fighting into close combat, mid-range and distance. I don't know if those are the right words, but JKD practitioners have eliminated mid-range. There's basically no such thing in fighting. Like in the UFC. You either is able to keep the distance when fighting a grappler or the fight ends up on the ground.
 
Who cares?
That's like caring what Eddie Bravo thinks about vaccines.
 
Flboycanscrap2 said:
Big athletic guys are dangerous but you have seen "A Lot" of "blue belts in BJJ, college wrestlers and Judo black belts" roughed up by untrained big guys? Where? How Many?

Even though you are acknowledging the opposite is more common, it is still a big assertion for one person to make anecdotally.

Regardless, Bruce Lee is not a big guy, in fact he is tiny. An average guy is way bigger than Bruce and even a properly trained guy of similar size shouldn't have much problem. He is just a striker at best and his athleticism is overblown, he doesn't have any high level athletic background at all.

There is no evidence that he has any clue how to defend against a takedown or a choke. BJJ is so strong against non-grapplers that knowing fundamentals is good enough to finish chokes at a high percentage, non-grapplers have no idea what they are dealing with and panic. Moreover, state champ wrestlers are not bums by any stretch, the average 18 year old all state or state champ wrestlers is fucking up a lot of people.

Acknowledging that Bruce cannot beat professionals is fine, but to assert that he could even beat amateurs with kryptonite level skills in his regard is ridiculous.

Bruce Lee is only 1 step above Frank Dux.
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You're response isn't very coherent, you went on in an argumentative manner while your responses were in agreement with mine for a large part of your retort which hurts my head a bit.

Where? How many? I trained and coached for years across gyms, what kind of questions are these? Do you want the names of the gyms and the exact number of accounts I claim to have seen? I encouraged a friend who was a competitive weight lifter that I played tennis with years ago to swing by sometime when I ran into him and he was able to take down BJJ practitioners and Sambo practitioners who had been training for several years and control them....These were guys who had had a couple amateur fights on the Native American reservation circuit and had their belts under their respected systems. A father who brought his kids to learn self defense was from Nigeria and worked security at the nearby airport, he was a bit overweight and older about 40 but quite thickly muscled, he decided to roll with some of the guys one day...Man they couldn't move him much, he was able to muscle takedowns and nobody submitted him. Another guy who was a Tae Kwon Do instructor at his academy would come cross train with us and I had him come teach classes sometimes, he was a competitive black belt in tae kwon do and karate...really technical and athletic, he'd roll and spar with us too..Man I saw a couple former Highschool wrestlers and a D2 college wrestler fail at getting takedowns, he had strong hips, quick reflexes and managed space really well. I have more stories if you'd like to hear them, don't worry. I'm not claiming they would have been able to do this on pro prospects or UFC fighters or anything but my gym actually had strong affiliations in grappling and decent instructors. Yes this is anecdotal.

There's actually evidence Bruce had some grappling knowledge, he actually would train with and learn from guys who sought out training under him, several of which were black belts in Judo and JuJitsu. He has a decent amount of documented Judo and JuJitsu experience and I know he trained some catch wrestling under Gene Lebell along with Judo. But I mean, he doesn't have tons of evidence that he can strike at a high level either, running sidekicks and the 2in punches? Doesn't exactly convince me he'd be able to knock out a Thai Boxer or Boxer his size you know? I can see you have something against Bruce, I would not compare him to Dux...He was definitely a talented, athletic and well trained guy....He just wasn't a professional fighter, but a world class martial artist? Absolutely. He was fast, athletic, very fit and well conditioned, you could tell his acumen for martial arts was pretty exceptional too.

It's just one of those things, if an 18 year old highschool national champion wrestler was able to take Bruce Lee down and manhandle him at will, would it surprise me? No. If Bruce knocked that kid out coming in, would it surprise me? No. You sound like you have a vendetta with traditional martial arts and Bruce Lee and maybe you've listened to the Joe Rogan podcast a few too many times lol. Bruce Lee was an influential lifelong martial artist, but he didn't train to be the best fighter in the world. I do think most competitive submission grapplers and wrestlers his size would probably have their way with him, they were different times anyways...Gama The Great probably wouldn't win a Junior College Championship in this day an age, but that doesn't take away from their greatness. I understand your beef with their mysticism and believers though but who cares, really?
 
listrahtes said:
Its about martial arts and he has done shit for martial arts. Guess I should also look up to Stallone as a martial artist because he influenced a lot of people with Rocky.

Lee was influental in the astronomic rise of bullshido gyms all around the US. The US always had great MAs who really developed the art. Like in that time frame Muhammad Ali, Sugar Ray Robinson...etc.

If you want actors with ma ability go for Don The Dragon Wilson who really had MA knowledge. Or on the lighter TMA side Loren Avedon but he is alsojust an actor with some MA knowledge.

but its fun he can even shot crossbows!!!!!



Look at these skills WOHAAAAA (love these trashy action flicks)
Click to expand...

Making your point by showing a shitty American movie?



Sammo Hung is also the greatest Bruce Lee imitator. Well, the only one to have done Bruce justice on screen.
 
Y2Khaos said:
Kareem Abdul Jabbar is not impressed by his performance.
iAF0mAa.gif
Click to expand...
Bruce Lee beat a 20x NBA HW champ with the first documented bulldog choke kill, while giving up 2ft in height and reach
 
listrahtes said:
<Lmaoo>
This is so comical wrong but I am done arguing about it.

Americans and their fascination with actors is really mind numbing. This is an american phenomenon. The worshiping of celebrities. It has created monsters like the Kardashians and Trump were you really think a society tries to lobotomize itself (not that Trumps opponents are much better this is not vs. republicans).

Lee was great at marketing some asian mumbojumbo philosophy he copied and never lived by himself. It was more important to make money and live the good life. Nowhere better than with ancient asian secrets for deluded hippie folks.

Its so funny when you hear people talk about that there wasnt much high level MA in his time so he had to create it, while there were a ton of killers in several martial arts well known and some also cross trained. But he HAD to create his own MA you know because <Lmaoo> and for sure never to compete in anything substantial.

You want a real pioneer for MMA and not some joke:

Take John Bluming for example. Now that is someone who deeply influenced stand up and development of studying different styles. A true martial artist.

Lee would have gotten a reality check the first time he would have entered serious boxing / wrestling etc training but he avoided that like the plague.

In the end its the story about a poor guy who made something out of himself but had a deep inferiority complex so he had to overstate everything and could never face a real threat in martial arts. In other terms he could never really learn anything. His fight with annother "grand master" was just a small brawl with a waiter who trained a little. Thats the scale Lees real talent was.

But people want to believe. Oh man talk about mass delusion :)
Click to expand...

I disagree about the Americans with a fascination with actors thing. This is global. Back home in the Philippines, politicians are comprised of a bunch of actors from the 80s and 90s with no experience in government. Shit, Manny Pacquiao is a senator for gods sake and there’s noise he’ll be president some day. In some countries, actors need body guards if they play villanous roles because people end up attacking them or threatening them, because citizens can’t separate the character and the actor. It’s crazyyy
 
The Highlight said:
Disagree totally. He was much faster and stronger than any bantam weight. Know one even comes close except maybe DJ.
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Well you are entitled to your opinion... But you are wrong as hell.

Bruce gets mopped by any UFC fighter in his weight class.

The man was never a professional fighter and had no ground game. Any wrestler with a BJJ purple belt would finish him fast.

With years of MMA training he might have done well, maybe even been champion. But if he stepped in the octagon today with nothing but the skills that he posessed back then, he would get wrecked.
 
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Lee was an amazing athlete and a huge martial arts nerd. He loved to study, ask hard questions, improve and modify. Were he alive in this era, he could have likely developed into a pretty solid fighter if he chose to. His skill set would have to change DRAMATICALLY.

But, there are so many intangibles that it's impossible for us to say he would have been GREAT. How was his chin? We don't know and it matters. Would his hands be subject to breakage? A slight bone structure coupled with what is reported as pretty solid power could be a problem for the metacarpals. Was he a bleeder? How was his fight IQ once the shiznit hits the fan? Would he be able to keep his cool once someone started landing on his chin?

But, to my thinking (only mine, could be wrong) I think Bruce was more interested in being Steve McQueen than he was in testing his skills and perhaps failing in front of the world. I grew up a Bruce Lee Fan and I have a lot of respect for the attention he brought to martial arts. That said, I too am frustrated when I hear what a GREAT FIGHTER he was. Maybe, Maybe NOT. We don't know. He was charismatic, athletic, convincing, expressive, intelligent.... Could he have beaten Khabib... I don't think so, but I've been wrong before.
 
before 99% of every joe was training jiu jitsu, Bruce Lee was busy armbarring Sammo Hung, and choking out NBA HW champions with guillotines
 
The Highlight said:
He was a master martial artist and had faster reaction skills than anyone in MMA today.
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No. I mean actually react to getting punched in the face.

Doesn't matter if you're master TMA if you're not use to getting punched.
 
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