Islam Makhachev or Jon Jones - Who should be P4P #1?

[mma fighter]

Neither. One is a cheat and the other hasn't done enough to be in the GOAT conversation.

 

[Private Whatley]

The guy who actually did P4P by successfully moving up a weight class.

Not the guy who's doing the opposite of it by repeatedly fighting a guy from the weight class below.

That guy from the weight class below was arguably the top p4p fighter alive according to many, and it’s not like Islam chose to fight him repeatedly. I think Jones is the best fighter we’ve ever seen, but right now Islam is the best fighter in the world, skill for skill.

P4P is all nonsense though and it’s not like Jones wouldn’t absolutely devour him in an open weight contest. Even islam would probably concede that point.

 

[Private Whatley]

Neither, Volk should still be P4P #1

You can't give Islam P4P #1 for beat up a small FW. That's supposed to happen. Islam would need to step up and win the WW belt and then I'd consider him for P4P #1.

Until then, Volk has shown more dominance at his weight than Islam has at his. I don't rate Jones as the LHW and HW divisions are so bad.

Volk can’t be #1 p4p after being KO’d in the first round regardless of the circumstances. Them’s the breaks. I had him at number 1 coming into Saturday and now I’d stick him at 3 behind Islam and Jones. Conversely, I vaulted Islam from 3 to 1 given the decisive manner in which he won, the quality of opponent whom he beat and the range of skills that he’s displayed.

tl;dr: p4p is a silly argument, Jones is the GOAT and Volk is a badass but Islam is currently the best fighter in the world.

 

[mudrubble]

Jon is such a total outlier.

Generally speaking a guy who has won SÌXTEEN consecutive title fights. 16.

If I am not mistaken I believe that is more title fight wins than all the current champs combined.

Spoiler: +×÷=

Quick math in my head the men have 10 title defense between all of them.

LHW is vancant and HW is Jones.

So 6 champs, each won the title 10+6=16

Edit: Jon has as many title wins as all the male champs combined.


So yes, of course it sound ridiculous to say that guy isn't #1.

But also not many guys are still winning title fights after a notable decline, eleventeen years into a UFC career.

Weren't the Santos and Reyes fights around 4 years ago? I think it is fair to say Prime Bones would have wiped the floor with those guys in 2 rounds or less. Jon finished young/prime fighting age Shogun, Machida and Rampage back to back to back.


So let's say Jon is 60% of full Jon Jones capacity. I think that's fair. He is way slower. But he is STILL WINNING.

-----
Meanwhile Islam is at his absolute prime, peak athletic ability, and after establishing untouchable wrestling, now he is dropping elite fighters and knocking them out.

That headkick was gorgeous.

____

Jones' headkick vs DC was gorgeous.
But I bet it was atleast 4 years ago.

If Jon headkicks Stipe, then maybe I am wrong

Strong argument. I am not sure Jon ever gets to fight Stipe at this point, sigh. How relevant is that fight 1 year from now???

 

[jeff7b9]

Strong argument. I am not sure Jon ever gets to fight Stipe at this point, sigh. How relevant is that fight 1 year from now???

I'm not so sure. Stipe will still be old when Jon gets back and old stipe is the fight he wants.

I feel like 2 things strongly point to Jon and Stipe in whatever 8-12ish months

A) Jon wants that payday and has already been mentally spending that retirement money in his head.

B) they didn't put Stipe in the interim fight

C) Jon doesn't want to risk his perfect record against the much more dangerous threat of those young bucks.

 

[mudrubble]

I'm not so sure. Stipe will still be old when Jon gets back and old stipe is the fight he wants.

I feel like 2 things strongly point to Jon and Stipe in whatever 8-12ish months

A) Jon wants that payday and has already been mentally spending that retirement money in his head.

B) they didn't put Stipe in the interim fight

C) Jon doesn't want to risk his perfect record against the much more dangerous threat of those young bucks.

I hear that but I just wonder if it will track well in a year with Jon out. But what do I know? I don't have a marketing department to push any fights. I'm interested, but I'm from that era. I wonder if the young casuals will forget who Jon was and not care? But what do I know?

 

[jeff7b9]

I hear that but I just wonder if it will track well in a year with Jon out. But what do I know? I don't have a marketing department to push any fights. I'm interested, but I'm from that era. I wonder if the young casuals will forget who Jon was and not care? But what do I know?

Yeah I'm old. I get it. I don't know what the kids are into these days.

I was looking forward to Jon neatly buttoning up his career this year with his little legacy going away party payday fight with Stipe.

Is he gonna fight 42 year old Stipe out for 3-4 years...?
yeah that is getting harder to sell.

That would be very very ballsy of Jon to fight the Pavlovich vs Aspinall winner. If by some miracle he beats the winner of that fight (coming off an injury & layoff) that would be pretty insane.

 

[mudrubble]

Yeah I'm old. I get it. I don't know what the kids are into these days.

I was looking forward to Jon neatly buttoning up his career this year with his little legacy going away party payday fight with Stipe.

Is he gonna fight 42 year old Stipe out for 3-4 years...?
yeah that is getting harder to sell.

That would be very very ballsy of Jon to fight the Pavlovich vs Aspinall winner. If by some miracle he beats the winner of that fight (coming off an injury & layoff) that would be pretty insane.

Agreed on all fronts. I was looking forward to this legacy fight. And I'd enjoy it in a year too but I have no real clue if Stipe's even training. It's probably losing credibility as a title fight on a day-by-day basis. A year from now? I don't know. But I'd watch.

And agreed, Jon would be foolhardy to take a fight with Aspinall or Pav BUT he did just take a fight with Cyril so maybe he can get his mind around another young buck? I'm old too, Jeff. I'd say you're in good company, but that might be a lie. I can say that you're in some kind of company for sure!

 

[Luckyme]

People are confusing P4P with GOAT.

P4P is based on recent activity. GOAT is determined by your overall resume.

Jones is obviously in the conversation for GOAT notwithstanding PEDs. But he's only had 1 fight in 3 years while Islam has had 7 fights in the same time period with 6 finishes.

 

[markg171]

Who wants to be the one to tell this bot?

Jon still has more top 5 wins than Islam this year.

 

[WA2OOO]

Pound for pound ever and goat is jones more title fights then Islam can count

 

[Killer Kadoogan]

P4P should only be determined by an actual open weight tournament, one night, in the state of Oklahoma where it is legal. other than that, it means fuck all if Casey E Leydon and Hyon KO Kim spout their dumbass opinions and give any sort of ranking to anything. its all bullshit, its all hype, its all wolf tickets, and its a stupid fucking assessment in the first place. "oh if their skills magically transferred across all weight divisions, this 125 pounder is actually the best." LOL. get the fuck outta here. stop giving so much weight to make believe fantasy, made up by other delusionalists. islam #2.

 

[moosaev]

People are confusing P4P with GOAT.

P4P is based on recent activity. GOAT is determined by your overall resume.

Jones is obviously in the conversation for GOAT notwithstanding PEDs. But he's only had 1 fight in 3 years while Islam has had 7 fights in the same time period with 6 finishes.

It's amazing that people still don't get this.

P4P = a snapshot in time, forget resumes, who do you think is best TODAY skillwise? Islam

GOAT = a career highlight reel, who has been the best over the stretch of their entire career? JBJ

 

[ThePimblettEra]

Perhaps because many people view the pound-for-pound rankings as recent achievement rankings?

Dumbest take I've ever heard lol.

 

[ThePimblettEra]

P4P = a snapshot in time, forget resumes, who do you think is best TODAY skillwise? Islam/QUOTE]

Thanks for the laughs. Some quality banter, that.

 

[Dandy Chiggins]

Islam obviously, never popped: never stop never stopping.

 

[moosaev]

Thanks for the laughs. Some quality banter, that.

PimblettEra as your name, opinion automatically disqualified lol.

 

[Killer Kadoogan]

Look, we all know Lion is the best, strongest, and would whoop everyone. But, I mean just look at the squirrel. Look at that skill set, it's totally better. The way the squirrel was able to dispatch the other squirrels, the way they he did it, how long he was dominant against the other squirrels, I mean, that's why squirrel > lion.

 

[PaddyO'malley]

Without question, Bones Jon Jones.

 

[GSPenn1991]

"naturally 205" but somehow had every physical and pharmaceutical advantage over his opponents nearly half of which were middleweights, yeah right

The guy walked around at 215 before heavyweight which is less than what khabib is now which is 230