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Yeh the wrestlers win.
Wrong. The ones who cross-train tend to be the best grapplers.
Yeh the wrestlers win.
Wrong. The ones who cross-train tend to be the best grapplers.
No one has disputed to be a good grappler you need wrestling or even multiple skills on this side outside of the OP just wanting to be a troll and start shit.
Heck today in class a guy asked me what move I used during a scramble "Hey what is the name for that in BJJ?"
I shrugged, I dunno at that point it was wrestling and I was just focused on getting top position and a pin to work from.
My belt is based on pure utter domination of all the newb High School and D1 rasslers that come in to our BJJ/MMA school and declare that they 'wanna fight'
Guys unfortunately the poster is biased and in the process he exposed either many regulars, although not trolls, are either biased themselves or simply ignorant of the fact that GJJ arrived in the USA under much hype, falsehoods and misconceptions.
I will present some evidence not to discredit BJJ at all BUT to enlighten the masses who flat out refuse to do some research or look at other possibilites.
Hype machine: Are any of you old enough to remember when Rorion claimed GJJ was unbeaten for 60 years and suddenly Brazlians with inflated records started the MMA scene all over the world?
We then learn of draws with Helio versus CACC wrestlers, a loss to Kimura etc...
recently we found record of a Luta Livre fighter who not only beat several of the gracies old rivals but did so before the Gracie did. Zulu being an example. Not to mention that this LL fighter had beaten several of GJJ's BEST fighters!
YouTube - The Undefeated Vale-Tudo Fighter Euclides Pereira - Inside MMA
So now we go on to state "WELL, they all trained in GJJ too BUT GJJ fighters dont do the same." Even in Donky Kongs AWESOME Rickson thread (if you have not seen it, look it up) he claims that Rickson claims to not cross train, have no need to cross train etc.. and yada...
In fact I would go on to say that many people on this forum spout the same nonsense! BUT pretty much ROLLS was a crosstrained fighter and his influense spreads to a who's who in the BJJ world including the former best in the world (Rickson) and the current best in the world (Roger) who's father was trained by Rolls.
AND BTW Take a look at the pic, so much for Rickson NOT cross training!!!!
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What I am trying to get at is that in order to be a GOOD mma fighter you will have crosstrained BJJ AND WRESTLING!
Nate, I quoted you but I did not intend to imply that you are one of the "sheep"...It sucks that this douche has pulled some of the regulars into this discussion.
I am pretty proud of the CACC and wrestling crowd though, for the most part they have stayed out of this.
As douchey as this guy is he still has been able to sort of highlight some of the perceptions and misconceptions of early GJJ and MMA.
He did cross train by virtue of training with Rolls AND there are pics of him in wrestling singlets (as shown) and in Sambo gear against Rolls. While his GJJ has some cross over there is enough difference in wrestling and GJJ to mean that he would have had to prepare in order to do well and as you can see in the pic he clearly placed at the tournament. Although if you ask him now (based on the Donkey Kong thread) he will say no BUT he has a vested interest in stating that, dont you agree?I dont know if rickson cross trained or not, but is well known that rickson would've joined and participate in other MArts tournamets... though I doubt wrestling was one of them... I do think the complete grappler is the one who crosstrain by the way. Wrestling has its stronger points, just as bjj has it ones...
Awesome post Knoxpk.
well, Rorion did talk some shit, that it has to be admited, just as the guts to put royce in the UFC 1,2,3 and 5 going against guys like severn and company...
Discuss.
Guys unfortunately the poster is biased and in the process he exposed either many regulars, although not trolls, are either biased themselves or simply ignorant of the fact that GJJ arrived in the USA under much hype, falsehoods and misconceptions.
I will present some evidence not to discredit BJJ at all BUT to enlighten the masses who flat out refuse to do some research or look at other possibilites.
Hype machine: Are any of you old enough to remember when Rorion claimed GJJ was unbeaten for 60 years and suddenly Brazlians with inflated records started the MMA scene all over the world?
We then learn of draws with Helio versus CACC wrestlers, a loss to Kimura etc...
recently we found record of a Luta Livre fighter who not only beat several of the gracies old rivals but did so before the Gracie did. Zulu being an example. Not to mention that this LL fighter had beaten several of GJJ's BEST fighters!
YouTube - The Undefeated Vale-Tudo Fighter Euclides Pereira - Inside MMA
So now we go on to state "WELL, they all trained in GJJ too BUT GJJ fighters dont do the same." Even in Donky Kongs AWESOME Rickson thread (if you have not seen it, look it up) he claims that Rickson claims to not cross train, have no need to cross train etc.. and yada...
In fact I would go on to say that many people on this forum spout the same nonsense! BUT pretty much ROLLS was a crosstrained fighter and his influense spreads to a who's who in the BJJ world including the former best in the world (Rickson) and the current best in the world (Roger) who's father was trained by Rolls.
AND BTW Take a look at the pic, so much for Rickson NOT cross training!!!!
![]()
What I am trying to get at is that in order to be a GOOD mma fighter you will have crosstrained BJJ AND WRESTLING!
I'm sure this topic has been discussed hundreds of times but heres my 2 cents... At my school it's sort of like this; You are awarded stripe every 3-4 months or so if you are progressing, they aren't neccessarily a sign of skill, just that you have been putting in your work and showing up. When you get your 3rd stripe you are eligible to take a test to move on to the next belt. This involves a technique test where you are tested from many different positions on knowing what to do and how to react from certain positions. You may demonstrate a technique and then they may ask "what if he defends by doing this...." then you may need to switch it up. You are graded on a 0-100 scale and I think you have to get above a certain score to move on. The next section of the test is a physical test that involves rolling non-stop for an hour with your partner switching every 60 seconds to a fresh partner. The goal here is just to last and fight smart, I don't think you are graded on how many times you get tapped, just that you aren't lazy and work the whole time. I'm sure there can be exceptions for instance if you were a purple coming from another gym you might move up faster, but you still have to put in the same time and work that us white belts are putting in.
I think a lot of people on a forum like this are always concerned with the competitive side and competing, but there's nothing in the BJJ rulebook that says you can't be a 80 years old, train for 2 years and be awarded a blue belt because you're understanding of BJJ has increased to blue belt level. He still might get beat by the fat whitebelt who wrestled in highschool, but that doesn't take away from his understanding of the martial art. Not everyone has to be an ADCC champ to progress.
In any respectable gym, I don't think 'money' will ever lead to a higher belt rank.
TS do you have nothing better to do?
We get it, you like wrestling and you think it is the superior art. Now can you move on and stop making threads. Your weak attempts at trying to convince people to agree with you is failing miserably, and you sound like a immature virgin.
Seriously get over your self.