Is todays Gane resume better than Aspinal's one?

[Rhood]

I'm usually the first one to criticize MMA math because these generated formulas are outright ridiculous.
I've even refrained from posting in this thread because the OP is completely absurd!
The mental logistics, the algebra, the rating system, and the MMA math comparing win/loss records based on 2 fighters in the same weight is completely overstated.
You are extreme nitpicking things based on fractional evidence and using it to judge fights.
Even the most professional sports bettors never do this shit!

 

[Skarsgard]

If anything the losses to Ngannou and Jones should be -3 a piece. He bragged about training his grappling as little as possible leading into both fights. That's significantly worse than a fluke injury.

 

[Benoitthegr8]

If we take scoring system:
1 point - average win
2 point - good win
3 point - elite win
-1 point - "good" loss
-2 point - loss
-3 points - bad loss

Gane:
Volk 2 - 2 points (close fight, but with injury)
Spivak - 1 point
Tai - 2 points
Lewis - 2 points
Volk 1 - 2 points
Rozen -1 point
JDS old - 1 point
Ngannou - -1 point (basically draw, but injury Ngannou)
Jones - -1 point (loss to GOAT, but easily)

Overall - +11-2=9 points

Aspinall:
Blaydes 2 - 2 points
Palvo - 2 points
Volk - 2 points
Spivak - 1 point
Tybura - 1 point
old Arlorski - 1 point
Blaydes - -2 points (injury, but not to elite fighter)

(also loss to Stuart is -3 points, but we dont count it here)

Overall - +9-2=7 points

So overalll Gane resume is now better, but if Asp beat him clearly, he gain 3 points and Gane will lose at least 1 point, so Aspinall would have better resume.

Use this metric

Win - by decision +1
Win - by way of finish: +2
Win - against ranked opponent additional +1
Win - fighting for a belt +1

I’m not sure why you want to use negatives, you just don’t score.

The most points possible from a win would be +4, for instance:

Title fight Jones submits ranked Gane +4
Title fight Miocic by UD against vs ranked Cormier +3
Gane wins by decision vs ranked Volkov +2
Tuivasa wins by TKO vs unranked Greg Hardy +2
Derrick Lewis wins by UD over unranked Roy Nelson +1

I expect you to have scores at minimum for the top 10, hint is you use the AI it is your friend, it will willingly help out and probably make a complement.

 

[orca]

Its just a handful of Jon fans making a lot of noise.

dude aspinal will lose inevitably
its just a matter of time
and hell be a laughing stock here

this is not a jones thread its about gane and tom

why are you always angry about jones lol
17 title wins most in history
that breaks your heart right?
youll grow old being angry everyday

 

[markg171]

Kinda funny how a similar thread with Lewis was done awhile back and all the Tom fans cried that's not fair as it exposed his resume is small.

Now that he's champion via promotion and without winning any more fights since then he's somehow untouchable.

Funny how that works!

 

[markg171]

If anything the losses to Ngannou and Jones should be -3 a piece. He bragged about training his grappling as little as possible leading into both fights. That's significantly worse than a fluke injury.

What would being submitted by Stuart Austin after bragging about training BJJ for 15 years and winning every level of British BJJ tournaments be then

 

[AndrewGolota48]

Gane must be all time elite then.

Let's look at early career losses by:

JDS
Werdum
Stipe being KO'd stiff by Struve
Ngannou's 2nd fight
Overeem losing a bunch early on


But yes, be @AndrewGolota48 and lock in on that 4th pro fight from a decade ago LMAO.

Horrendous comparisons, JDS and Ngannou were incredibly green and started training in their 20s, Tom started at childhood, had an MMA fighter father, got his ass handled in his BASE that he had over a decade of experience training in, despite having a 30 lb advantage, which in grappling is an absolutely huge edge to have. I can't think of an example that egregious in all of MMA history.

Ironically he turned out to be way more talented for striking, I'll give him credit for that, but he isn't, and is not even physically capable of being, a grappler at the level that could ever deal with even an old Jon Jones, just as Jake Shields will never be much of a striker.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

dude aspinal will lose inevitably
its just a matter of time
and hell be a laughing stock here

this is not a jones thread its about gane and tom

why are you always angry about jones lol
17 title wins most in history
that breaks your heart right?
youll grow old being angry everyday

There is not a single thread made on here anymore praising Gane and/or criticising Tom that isnt made by a pro-Jon troll with an ulterior motive. It is a handful of the same posters making them all.

I'm not angry or upset about Jon at all. I actually think hes the GOAT, but I also think at this stage of his career and fighting outside of his career weight class Tom (and Ngannou) were going to decapitate him so he ducked them, and that since he started ducking hes had some creepily dedicated fans who shit up the forum with nonsense 24/7 to defend and excuse him, even after hes retired. People like you are literally hoping that Tom, a young active fighter, loses, in the hope that it makes a retired fighter who ducked him look less bad. Its just odd fangirl behaviour that goes way beyond appreciating a fighter for his skills and achievements.

 

[mkess101]

Horrendous comparisons, JDS and Ngannou were incredibly green and started training in their 20s, Tom started at childhood, had an MMA fighter father, got his ass handled in his BASE that he had over a decade of experience training in, despite having a 30 lb advantage, which in grappling is an absolutely huge edge to have. I can't think of an example that egregious in all of MMA history.

Ironically he turned out to be way more talented for striking, I'll give him credit for that, but he isn't, and is not even physically capable of being, a grappler at the level that could ever deal with even an old Jon Jones, just as Jake Shields will never be much of a striker.

He was 22 years old in his 4th fight. You're a moron.

 

[Gregoire1]

Use this metric

Win - by decision +1
Win - by way of finish: +2
Win - against ranked opponent additional +1
Win - fighting for a belt +1

I’m not sure why you want to use negatives, you just don’t score.

The most points possible from a win would be +4, for instance:

Title fight Jones submits ranked Gane +4
Title fight Miocic by UD against vs ranked Cormier +3
Gane wins by decision vs ranked Volkov +2
Tuivasa wins by TKO vs unranked Greg Hardy +2
Derrick Lewis wins by UD over unranked Roy Nelson +1

I expect you to have scores at minimum for the top 10, hint is you use the AI it is your friend, it will willingly help out and probably make a complement.

Because undefeated fighter or fighter with two losses to GOAT HWs (Jones and Ngannou) better than fighter with 3 losses to Austins and Blaydes of the world. Or it doesnt matter?

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

Because undefeated fighter or fighter with two losses to GOAT HWs (Jones and Ngannou) better than fighter with 3 losses to Austins and Blaydes of the world. Or it doesnt matter?

Tom has one legitimate loss, when he was 22 years old and in the 4th fight of his career after 6 months as a pro. His other "losses" were a DQ and an injury that he did to himself.

Gane was a contentious judges decision away from losing to Volkov just recently, and has arguably been kept away from Blaydes, Pav and Jailton to avoid having him lose outside of title fights which would cause him to slip down the rankings (they've artificially kept him in the top 3 for years now)

 

[AndrewGolota48]

He was 22 years old in his 4th fight. You're a moron.

Straw man, I never said he peaked as an MMA fighter at 22 (you're also leaving out his ammy fights as you always do but fine), however his grappling was probably 90% to peak if not more, as he already been training in that area his entire life.

Show me the videos of talented grapplers like Jon Jones, Khamzat, Usman, Cain, DC (though he started older he was green in MMA against top competition), etc being dominated by opponents half their size when they were young in MMA. Usman got subbed, but I'm not sure you're understanding the distinction....it's a common misconception that Tom simply "got caught" vs Austin, similar to what happened to Usman, but if you actually watch the fight, it's a whole different universe. This wasn't Sonnen dominating all fight then getting triangled....it was sheer, protracted, grappling domination by Austin.

Heck at HW size is so important that Rico was taking down Couture at will in later rounds despite not being able to shine Randy's shoes in wrestling, he was just bigger. Right now, today, Khamzat would bully Tom in straight grappling despite the 50 lb disadvantage.

 

[Gregoire1]

Tom has one legitimate loss, when he was 22 years old and in the 4th fight of his career after 6 months as a pro. His other "losses" were a DQ and an injury that he did to himself.

Gane was a contentious judges decision away from losing to Volkov just recently, and has arguably been kept away from Blaydes, Pav and Jailton to avoid having him lose outside of title fights which would cause him to slip down the rankings (they've artificially kept him in the top 3 for years now)

So, injury its not a loss? Anderson loss to Weidman is not legit? Or OMalley loss to Vera?

 

[mkess101]

Straw man, I never said he peaked as an MMA fighter at 22 (you're also leaving out his ammy fights as you always do but fine), however his grappling was probably 90% to peak if not more, as he already been training in that area his entire life.

Show me the videos of talented grapplers like Jon Jones, Khamzat, Usman, Cain, DC (though he started older he was green in MMA against top competition), etc being dominated by opponents half their size when they were young in MMA. Usman got subbed, but I'm not sure you're understanding the distinction....it's a common misconception that Tom simply "got caught" vs Austin, similar to what happened to Usman, but if you actually watch the fight, it's a whole different universe. This wasn't Sonnen dominating all fight then getting triangled....it was sheer, protracted, grappling domination by Austin.

Heck at HW size is so important that Rico was taking down Couture at will in later rounds despite not being able to shine Randy's shoes in wrestling, he was just bigger. Right now, today, Khamzat would bully Tom in straight grappling despite the 50 lb disadvantage.

How can you expect anyone to take anything you say seriously when you claim at 22 he was "probably at 90% of his grappling peak"? You think because you're training bjj as a kid that the gains you make mean anything compared to when you're a legit, full time pro fighter

Yes, he went from being subbed by Stuart Austin to easily subbing a legit top 10 guy in Volkov with almost no improvement.

My God you are an idiot.

 

[AndrewGolota48]

How can you expect anyone to take anything you say seriously when you claim at 22 he was "probably at 90% of his grappling peak"? You think because you're training bjj as a kid that the gains you make mean anything compared to when you're a legit, full time pro fighter

Yes, he went from being subbed by Stuart Austin to easily subbing a legit top 10 guy in Volkov with almost no improvement.

My God you are an idiot.

Haha what age do you think it takes for someone that studies a discipline from childhood to get most of the way there? Are you trying to write your thesis for Clown College?

By that age Saduluev, Kyle Snyder, Karelin, Cejudo, etc all had won Olympic gold medals, Gordon Ryan had won Mundials, Mike Tyson a HW boxing title, and on and on.

Yes athletes can improve after such an early age, but they are 90% there already. For example Canelo has become a better boxer since 22 but he was already world class. In your bizarro world guys wrestle their whole lives, suck in college still, but then get amazing afterward by leaps and bounds?

It doesn't matter what sport you're talking about really, guys that grow up playing football and basketball are already in the NBA or NFL at that time. Do they improve? Sure, but they are already 90% there.

And to be clear, since you don't seem to get the nuance, I'm not talking about MMA overall, as Tom was still fairly green there....but he had been doing grappling for his whole life. Brock Lesnar walked into MMA and was getting the better of Mir in his second ever fight....and then slaughtered him a few fights later, because Brock is actually talented and experienced in grappling. His striking and overall ability in MMA is a different subject that is to be evaluated separately.

Ben Askren was never going to be a striker even if he trained from a young age. Tom doesn't have the level of grappling talent to stop someone like Jones from manhandling him. It doesn't matter if he had 100 fights and was 32 years old, just like Askren was never going to stand with JDM.

 

[mkess101]

Kinda funny how a similar thread with Lewis was done awhile back and all the Tom fans cried that's not fair as it exposed his resume is small.

Now that he's champion via promotion and without winning any more fights since then he's somehow untouchable.

Funny how that works!

Nobody cried dipshit, they just mock you morons that don't understand what you're watching.

You whine like a bitch more than anyone I can remember on this forum.

 

[Skarsgard]

What would being submitted by Stuart Austin after bragging about training BJJ for 15 years and winning every level of British BJJ tournaments be then

That early in his MMA career? If I'm being a stickler, maybe a -1 or -2. However, that was so long before his UFC run that inexperience can play a massive role in anything. Definitely not the same as being a contender in the biggest org in the world and laughing about having a glaring hole in your game. Especially when you lack the one-shot power to truly even the playing field like someone like Lewis.

 

[Ibm]

Gane is more tested.

 

[mkess101]

Haha what age do you think it takes for someone that studies a discipline from childhood to get most of the way there? Are you trying to write your thesis for Clown College?

By that age Saduluev, Kyle Snyder, Karelin, Cejudo, etc all had won Olympic gold medals, Gordon Ryan had won Mundials, Mike Tyson a HW boxing title, and on and on.

Yes athletes can improve after such an early age, but they are 90% there already. For example Canelo has become a better boxer since 22 but he was already world class. In your bizarro world guys wrestle their whole lives, suck in college still, but then get amazing afterward by leaps and bounds?

It doesn't matter what sport you're talking about really, guys that grow up playing football and basketball are already in the NBA or NFL at that time. Do they improve? Sure, but they are already 90% there.

And to be clear, since you don't seem to get the nuance, I'm not talking about MMA overall, as Tom was still fairly green there....but he had been doing grappling for his whole life. Brock Lesnar walked into MMA and was getting the better of Mir in his second ever fight....and then slaughtered him a few fights later, because Brock is actually talented and experienced in grappling. His striking and overall ability in MMA is a different subject that is to be evaluated separately.

Ben Askren was never going to be a striker even if he trained from a young age. Tom doesn't have the level of grappling talent to stop someone like Jones from manhandling him. It doesn't matter if he had 100 fights and was 32 years old, just like Askren was never going to stand with JDM.

First of all, how dumb are you really to not understand that people make leaps at different times. We ARE talking about MMA because grappling in MMA isn't the same thing as grappling in wrestling matches or in a bjj tournament or even a sambo match. And if you're too dumb to have seen guys make HUGE strides in their MMA careers as they move through their 20's (and I mean strides in SPECIFIC AREAS too, not just holistically) then you're too stupid to even bother with.

Again, please enlighten us how he went from being subbed at 22 in regionals to easily taking down and subbing a top 10, 44 fight vet who had only 2 previous sub losses and hadn't been subbed in a decade...without seeing huge improvements in his grappling? C'mon genius, let's hear it.

 

[BowserJr]

If we take scoring system:
1 point - average win
2 point - good win
3 point - elite win
-1 point - "good" loss
-2 point - loss
-3 points - bad loss

Gane:
Volk 2 - 2 points (close fight, but with injury)
Spivak - 1 point
Tai - 2 points
Lewis - 2 points
Volk 1 - 2 points
Rozen -1 point
JDS old - 1 point
Ngannou - -1 point (basically draw, but injury Ngannou)
Jones - -1 point (loss to GOAT, but easily)

Overall - +11-2=9 points

Aspinall:
Blaydes 2 - 2 points
Palvo - 2 points
Volk - 2 points
Spivak - 1 point
Tybura - 1 point
old Arlorski - 1 point
Blaydes - -2 points (injury, but not to elite fighter)

(also loss to Stuart is -3 points, but we dont count it here)

Overall - +9-2=7 points

So overalll Gane resume is now better, but if Asp beat him clearly, he gain 3 points and Gane will lose at least 1 point, so Aspinall would have better resume.

Tai and Lewis should be 1s on your scoring chart