International Illegals are self deporting in numbers never seen before

[Possum Jenkins]

But this chart is not telling the full truth.

It's missing a gigantic method where people become legal - marriages and also US citizen children petitioning for their illegal immigrant parents after they turn 21.

It's covering the realistic ways that people living in their home countries can enter and work in the US legally.

How is a dude living in, say, Honduras gonna just conjure up an American citizen to marry? How is he going to get a US-born child when he is living in Honduras?

These are possibilities for immigrants already living in the US. But the hysteria around illegal immigration is the almost universal belief that these people just don't seem to want to "get in line" and that if they just "did it the right way," they could be legal. But no, they seem to love being outside the law.

The point of my post and that chart is to show that it's not that easy. In fact, for the vast majority, it's impossible.

 

[Lycandroid]

Every single empire in human history had open borders. It’s called travelling. It’s literally the reason why people like ghengis khan could dominate the world with so many different advisors feeding him ideas.

You don’t think America benefited from this diversity in anyway? Do you think if it was only ever an Anglo Saxon country it would result in the progress it had? You act like there wasn’t full blown riots between the Irish and the locals of the time?

It’s just weird for you to say these things while history paints a different picture.

Border barriers in history​

• Antonine Wall (began in AD 142 by the Roman province in Britain)
• Anastasian Wall (built from AD 469, west of Istanbul, Turkey)
• Great Wall of China (parts were built as early as the 7th century BC by the Qi dynasty in China)
• Great Wall of Gorgan (built in 5th or 6th century AD)
• Hadrian's Wall (begun in AD 122)
• Madukkarai Wall (may have been built as early as the 1st century AD in India)
• Southern Great Wall, southern counterpart wall to the Great Wall, erected to protect and divide the Chinese from the "southern barbarians" called Miao (meaning barbaric and nomadic)<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_barrier#cite_note-130"><span>[</span>130<span>]</span></a>

Middle Ages​

• Cheolli Jangseong
• The fortifications, castles and border walls between the Emirate of Granada and the Crown of Castile, later Spain between 1238 and 2 January 1492 although it continued as the internal border of the Crown of Castile, then Spain as Kingdom of Granada from 2 January 1492 to 29 September 1833. A large part of the fortifications, castles and walls is currently in good condition.
• Asilah: The King Alfonso V of Portugal built walls on the outskirts of the city of Asilah, serving as a border between the Kingdom of Portugal and the Marinid dynasty (1471–1472), the Saadi Sultanate (1472–1550), the Wattasid dynasty (1577–1589), in the area of the sea there are still cannons next to a Portuguese square tower. Currently the Wall is in good condition.
• Macau: Ming dynasty (currently China) built a wall around Macau in 1570.

Early modern period​

• Great Hedge of India, built by the British in 1803
• The border forts between the Captaincy General of Chile later Chile and the Mapuche territory that served as the border between the two from 1598 to 1883, which was delimited mainly by the Biobío river, the route passed through the Province of Biobío, Region of Biobío and the Region of Araucanía.
• Zanja de Alsina, built in the 1870s along the southern frontier of Argentina
• The points, forts and border barriers that functioned between the French Conchinchina and the Nguyễn dynasty that functioned between 1862 and 1887.

 

[Gamer2k4]

It's not that the line is long, for the vast majority there is no line. It's impossible to enter or stay legally.

This is a great chart and should be pinned to the top of every immigration thread, IMO:

Larger version: https://reason.com/2008/09/24/new-at-reason-mike-flynn-shikh/

That all sounds reasonable to me. We can barely care for our own citizens. Why should we open the door for immigrants if they're unskilled and don't have family here?

Now, I'm all for seasonal work programs to temporarily allow non-citizens to come over to help with harvests and things like that. That's a sensible contribution to the American economy. But if you don't have family here and no company wants to hire you, why exactly should we let you in? And if you do have those things, shouldn't there be a period where you must prove yourself before you're granted citizenship?

 

[Gamer2k4]

If people here illegally want to self deport that's fine I guess.

But if someone is here illegally and is gainfully employed, living by the law, working and spending, there is virtually 0.00 utility in their leaving. And that describes the vast majority of people here illegally.

Then doesn't the fact that we're seeing record numbers of self-deportation prove just how many illegals WEREN'T gainfully employed or living by the law?

 

[DanSavage]

Just to be clear, his withholding of removal order was only until they could find a different country to deport him too. However, the order was given in 2019, then COVID happened, so I am sure deportations, especially to third-party countries was a bit of a hassle… then the Biden admin came

Correct. He was ordered to be removed immediately.

If people here illegally want to self deport that's fine I guess.

But if someone is here illegally and is gainfully employed, living by the law, working and spending, there is virtually 0.00 utility in their leaving. And that describes the vast majority of people here illegally.

Crossing the border without going through a port of entry is a federal crime.
Period. Full stop.

The first time is punishable by fine, imprisonment up to 6 months or both.
The second time is punishable by fine, imprisonment up to 2 years or both.

Anyone here in the US who has not come in via a port of entry is a criminal.
Period. Full stop.

I don't care how nice they are or how hard they work. By coming here illegally, they have shown they have zero respect for our immigration laws.

Because of this, I would also expect that they also have no respect for our tax laws, our vehicle code laws or our criminal laws.

As such, I fully support deporting any illegal alien back to their country of origin.
Period. Full stop.

They cost US taxpayers $42 billion dollars annually in welfare benefits, $68 billion annually in public school costs and $7 billion annually in emergency services. While the average lifetime fiscal drain (taxes paid minus costs) for each illegal alien is about $68,000, this is not enough to cover the cost of services they receive.

See: The Cost of Illegal Immigration to Taxpayers

8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien​

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

 

[badascan]

Good! You aren't wanted here, you broke our laws and we have enough law breakers, in fact, we don't want them either but we're stuck with them. We aren't stuck with you, get out!

And they're getting more free shit to leave, it's insane what was allowed to happen to the US and to correct it we have to get serious, not emotional and fearful.

 

[GrantB13]

If an illegal alien self deports themselves, I think they should be given preference when trying to come back the legal way.

Give former law breakers who turn themselves in precedent over first-attempt immigrants who have never broken the law?

 

[Beechwood]

Nearly 1 million illegal immigrants have ‘self deported’ under Trump, which has led to higher wages​

Nearly 1 million illegal immigrants have ‘self deported’ under Trump, which has led to higher wages

DHS can’t arrest and deport 15.4 million illegal aliens, but if it simply enforces the law, many aliens will get the message and leave on their own — as hundreds of thousands apparently already hav…

nypost.com

.....DHS next launched a multi-million-dollar ad campaign warning migrants not to enter illegally or, alternatively, to leave voluntarily now and possibly “have an opportunity to return and enjoy our freedom and live the American Dream.”

Noem also rebranded the notorious CBP One app — which the Biden administration used to funnel hundreds of thousands of illegal migrants into our country — as “CBP Home,” which aliens can use to “notify the U.S. Government of their intent to depart”.

That rebranding coincided with an offer of financial incentives for aliens who leave voluntarily, a stipend of $1,000. That’s in lieu of costly physical deportation, which can cost taxpayers $17,100 per person on average.

How effective has self-deportation been?

One way to track the program is by checking employment numbers. One financial wiz cited by the Wall Street Journal calculated a decline in the immigrant population of 773,000 in the first four months of Trump II.

The Washington Post claims “a million foreign-born workers have exited the workforce since March.” The Post frames this as “a sign of the weakening labor supply.” Yet the paper also notes, “Average hourly wages accelerated, rising by 0.4 percent over the month, to $36.24 in May, as earnings continue to beat inflation in a boost to workers’ spending power.”

In other words, with fewer illegal immigrants, businesses had to raise wages to attract workers.

But aliens will only leave if they believe Trump and Homan are serious about arrests, and employers know the feds are targeting shady businesses. .....

 

[Confucamus]

Give former law breakers who turn themselves in precedent over first-attempt immigrants who have never broken the law?

You make a good point, but it's a good idea to incentivize the illegal's currently in the country to do the right thing and leave. Try coming back the right way.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

That all sounds reasonable to me. We can barely care for our own citizens. Why should we open the door for immigrants if they're unskilled and don't have family here?

Because in a capitalist system, taking care of all citizens isn't the focus, increasing wealth and productivity is.

Unskilled work is absolutely needed and lots of industries like farming, construction, hotel/restaurant all depend heavily on it.

Now, I'm all for seasonal work programs to temporarily allow non-citizens to come over to help with harvests and things like that. That's a sensible contribution to the American economy. But if you don't have family here and no company wants to hire you, why exactly should we let you in? And if you do have those things, shouldn't there be a period where you must prove yourself before you're granted citizenship?

Again, there are tons of industries that depend on this type of labor. This is a global phenomenon, low-skilled workers migrate to richer countries to do low-paid work. The US is the richest of all, so it's always received the most.

It's kind of a self-regulating system. When the economy is doing well, more immigrants come in, when it slows, much less so. There is tons of data on how during 2008 financial crisis and during the peak the 2020 pandemic, immigration went way down. Why? Because there were less jobs.

 

[fedorthegoat777]

They need to fix legal immigration if this is all going to be part of a more permanent solution. There are many, many hard working immigrants that have been a boon for this country and at the rate inequality is going, we're going to face population/workforce issues sooner rather than later. Hopefully the next time democrats are in power they'll focus on reform and not just fling the gates wide open again.

Democrats don't want to help people, they want slaves, like they used to have.

By keeping the people as illegals instead of as legals you can pay them below minimum wage and no benefits. They can't complain.

 

[fica]

dont care about it but is good they self deport just like they came in

 

[KeepingItReal]

Border barriers in history​

• Antonine Wall (began in AD 142 by the Roman province in Britain)
• Anastasian Wall (built from AD 469, west of Istanbul, Turkey)
• Great Wall of China (parts were built as early as the 7th century BC by the Qi dynasty in China)
• Great Wall of Gorgan (built in 5th or 6th century AD)
• Hadrian's Wall (begun in AD 122)
• Madukkarai Wall (may have been built as early as the 1st century AD in India)
• Southern Great Wall, southern counterpart wall to the Great Wall, erected to protect and divide the Chinese from the "southern barbarians" called Miao (meaning barbaric and nomadic)<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_barrier#cite_note-130"><span>[</span>130<span>]</span></a>

Middle Ages​

• Cheolli Jangseong
• The fortifications, castles and border walls between the Emirate of Granada and the Crown of Castile, later Spain between 1238 and 2 January 1492 although it continued as the internal border of the Crown of Castile, then Spain as Kingdom of Granada from 2 January 1492 to 29 September 1833. A large part of the fortifications, castles and walls is currently in good condition.
• Asilah: The King Alfonso V of Portugal built walls on the outskirts of the city of Asilah, serving as a border between the Kingdom of Portugal and the Marinid dynasty (1471–1472), the Saadi Sultanate (1472–1550), the Wattasid dynasty (1577–1589), in the area of the sea there are still cannons next to a Portuguese square tower. Currently the Wall is in good condition.
• Macau: Ming dynasty (currently China) built a wall around Macau in 1570.

Early modern period​

• Great Hedge of India, built by the British in 1803
• The border forts between the Captaincy General of Chile later Chile and the Mapuche territory that served as the border between the two from 1598 to 1883, which was delimited mainly by the Biobío river, the route passed through the Province of Biobío, Region of Biobío and the Region of Araucanía.
• Zanja de Alsina, built in the 1870s along the southern frontier of Argentina
• The points, forts and border barriers that functioned between the French Conchinchina and the Nguyễn dynasty that functioned between 1862 and 1887.

Why are you posting all these facts bro? If he was interested in such things he would have just "googled that shit."

 

[cheesus]

I don't blame them, America is collapsing, China will soon be number #1

 

[Broke Lester]

I don't blame them, America is collapsing, China will soon be number #1

Go to China then, see how fast you get deported.

 

[lowlife]

Democrats don't want to help people, they want slaves, like they used to have.

By keeping the people as illegals instead of as legals you can pay them below minimum wage and no benefits. They can't complain.

Thanks for your incredibly ignorant opinion.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

You see this as a positive? That they think America is so bad now they rather live elsewhere?

I’m not sure if this is the flex you think it is lol

What kind of jibberish is this. You have illegal foreigners now leaving your country. How can that be bad?

 

[cooks1]

Then doesn't the fact that we're seeing record numbers of self-deportation prove just how many illegals WEREN'T gainfully employed or living by the law?

I have not seen any data about how many of the people self deporting are employed vs unemployed. That would be god information to have though.

When I say there is 0.00 utility to their leaving, I mean utility to the nation. A person living here illegally quietly working away at a minimum wage or slightly above menial job IS a value adder to the country.

If we really wanted to make a positive difference, we could just raid our own prisons and jails and deport those illegals rather than raid businesses. It's far easier to find them since they are locked up already. Why pay $35 K a year to billet an illegal in jail here while we raid meat factories and rip working peoples families apart?

 

[DanSavage]

You make a good point, but it's a good idea to incentivize the illegal's currently in the country to do the right thing and leave. Try coming back the right way.

Trump incentivized them by making a big deal about sending Garcia to CECOT. He sent the message that if the illegals didn't leave, they might be next.

I have not seen any data about how many of the people self deporting are employed vs unemployed. That would be god information to have though.

When I say there is 0.00 utility to their leaving, I mean utility to the nation. A person living here illegally quietly working away at a minimum wage or slightly above menial job IS a value adder to the country.

If we really wanted to make a positive difference, we could just raid our own prisons and jails and deport those illegals rather than raid businesses. It's far easier to find them since they are locked up already. Why pay $35 K a year to billet an illegal in jail here while we raid meat factories and rip working peoples families apart?

Negative. Per US government's own data they take from the country more than they provide.

See: The Cost of Illegal Immigration to Taxpayers

They cost US taxpayers $42 billion dollars annually in welfare benefits, $68 billion annually in public school costs and $7 billion annually in emergency services. While the average lifetime fiscal drain (taxes paid minus costs) for each illegal alien is about $68,000, this is not enough to cover the cost of services they receive.

Illegals also drive down wages and take jobs that other legal residents or unskilled American citizens might work.

See: How a city in Nebraska is recovering after the state's largest worksite immigration raid

OMAHA, Neb. — Every seat in the waiting area of Glenn Valley Foods was occupied with people filling out job applications early Thursday afternoon, two days after the meatpacking plant became the center of the largest worksite immigration raid in the state of Nebraska so far this year.

Dozens of prospective employees, many of them Spanish speakers, had been coming in and out of the plant all day. Some were hoping to land a new job; others were coming in for training.

The scene gave the company’s president, Chad Hartmann, a glimmer of hope amid the chaos that ensued after Tuesday's raid purged roughly half of his staff — many of whom had been longtime employees of the company, which has been processing boxed beef for more than 15 years.

 

[Kassitus]

Because in a capitalist system, taking care of all citizens isn't the focus, increasing wealth and productivity is.

Unskilled work is absolutely needed and lots of industries like farming, construction, hotel/restaurant all depend heavily on it.



Again, there are tons of industries that depend on this type of labor. This is a global phenomenon, low-skilled workers migrate to richer countries to do low-paid work. The US is the richest of all, so it's always received the most.

It's kind of a self-regulating system. When the economy is doing well, more immigrants come in, when it slows, much less so. There is tons of data on how during 2008 financial crisis and during the peak the 2020 pandemic, immigration went way down. Why? Because there were less jobs.

The citizens are even more taken care of by the state proactively regulating the demographics rather than using a purely capitalist model which regulates itself via the economy getting shitty. Especially when we know how much businesses manipulate the system. The state is like a super union that can stand up to super bosses, I.e. magnates.