How would a Hagler/Hearns 2 fight have gone?

[mozfonky]

Naw, I don't believe in excuses either, Hagler was the bigger man and that was a factor.

 

[BrooklynBomber]

Naw, I don't believe in excuses either, Hagler was the bigger man and that was a factor.

In 1985 he was. By 1988 when the rematch would have taken place, Tommy had fully grown into his physique, and he was a big middleweight, and average sized light heavyweight, so he would have been the bigger man. Though as I stated before I'd take Marvin on a 10th round come from behind stoppage.

 

[5acrossYOeye]

Iron chin > spaghetti legs.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

Hearn's success in the first Leonard fight is exaggerated.

 

[BrooklynBomber]

Hearn's success in the first Leonard fight is exaggerated.

Leading on all 3 cards and winning all but say 4 of 13 rounds is exaggerated?

 

[ssx]

Hearns was very skilled, but all his weaknesses played right into Hagler's strength's. Hagler would always wear Hearns down and batter him. A better question is, how would Hagler-Leonard 2 have gone? I think Hagler wins a fairly close decision. Or Hagler-Duran 2? I'd take Hearns again, by KO4. It's all about different styles.

 

[BrooklynBomber]

Hearns was very skilled, but all his weaknesses played right into Hagler's strength's. Hagler would always wear Hearns down and batter him. A better question is, how would Hagler-Leonard 2 have gone? I think Hagler wins a fairly close decision. Or Hagler-Duran 2? I'd take Hearns again, by KO4. It's all about different styles.

Marvin would beat up Ray again. Why do you think Leonard refused him a rematch?

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

Leading on all 3 cards and winning all but say 4 of 13 rounds is exaggerated?

Tough statement to respond to, because the first part is fact, the second part opinion. I think arguably Hearns was winning the fight but losing the war (kind of like chavez vs. Taylor) and don't think Hearns won 9 of 13 rounds. So that's my point. Like Ali taking an imaginary beating versus Foreman, so did Ray against Hearns. Actually, Leonard spent a good part of the fight hunting Hearns down than finishing him.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

Marvin would beat up Ray again. Why do you think Leonard refused him a rematch?

Marvin beat up Ray? Another exaggeration.

 

[BrooklynBomber]

Tough statement to respond to, because the first part is fact, the second part opinion. I think arguably Hearns was winning the fight but losing the war (kind of like chavez vs. Taylor) and don't think Hearns won 9 of 13 rounds. So that's my point. Like Ali taking an imaginary beating versus Foreman, so did Ray against Hearns. Actually, Leonard spent a good part of the fight hunting Hearns down than finishing him.

For the first 5 rounds there was no such imaginary beating. It was this fight that almost left Ray blind in one eye. After Leonard won round 6 and hurt Tommy badly is when Hearns got on his bike and boxed cautiously but dominantly.

 

[BrooklynBomber]

Marvin beat up Ray? Another exaggeration.

As my good buddy Necro would say, Leonard won every second of that fight that he fought. The problem is that he only fought 30 seconds of each round, while Marvin controlled the first two and a half minutes by backing Leonard up to the ropes and scoring with left uppercuts and overhand lefts on the inside, as well as doing good body work.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

As my good buddy Necro would say, Leonard won every second of that fight that he fought. The problem is that he only fought 30 seconds of each round, while Marvin controlled the first two and a half minutes by backing Leonard up to the ropes and scoring with left uppercuts and overhand lefts on the inside, as well as doing good body work.

Hey, I'm just keeping it real. If you think Marvin edged out the decision, I'm with ya, but beat up Ray? Hardly.

 

[mozfonky]

For the first 5 rounds there was no such imaginary beating. It was this fight that almost left Ray blind in one eye. After Leonard won round 6 and hurt Tommy badly is when Hearns got on his bike and boxed cautiously but dominantly.

I've also heard that ray caught an elbow in that eye during training and it may have been what did it. He didn't realize it until his next defense when he was seeing "spotters" in his eye.

 

[mozfonky]

Hagler had no business letting that be a close fight, he blew it. As paranoid as he was and as many times as he was shortchanged, he allowed himself to be overconfident for the first and only time that i ever followed his career and it cost him. Judges are corrupt, big news, it's the fighters job to take it out of the judges hands if possible and to make it as un-close as possible. I loved Hagler but it certainly wasn't a dominating performance, if he'd gotten the decision all the guys that are crazy about ray would be saying the opposit today, it was too damn close. Poor Marvin.

 

[Sharkey]

I've also heard that ray caught an elbow in that eye during training and it may have been what did it. He didn't realize it until his next defense when he was seeing "spotters" in his eye.

True.

That training injury was also reported at the time, as well, and Mike Trainer believes that that training incident was what caused the initial retinal detachment.

Tough to say, though, with any certainty, because it was obviously taking some damage in the Hearns fight, and also, as you may remember since you've read it, Moz, in his book Angelo Dundee talks about yet another sparring incident/injury to the eye just before Leonard starting seeing spots, and that of course took place while in training for the Stafford fight.

 

[Red Eagle 7]

Let's not forget that even more than boxer-puncher par excellence, Tammah Hearns was bully. Hagler-Hearns I was a bully bullying and lighter bully, and while ring-master Hearns, under the tutelage of master trainer Emmanuel Steward, would have a better game plan for dealing w/ Hagler in a rematch, his ability to stick to it and implement it is questionable.

Someone astutely pointed out that Hagler had a considerable reach and that helped him a lot against Hearns... props. I think that same was true of Barbados Joe and Sam Langford - short man w/ a long reach.

 

[Seti1501]

Tommy immediately comes out on his bicycle, and taking notes from Leonard, knows Marvin just ain't too quick anymore. Tommy's landing that long jab and right hand from outside, and tying Marvin up whenever he gets inside. By the 6th round Marvin finally makes some progress, digging hard to the body as it appears Tommy is taking the round off. Hearns comes back hard to take the 7th and 8th, but in the 9th Marvin finally scores with a lunging right hook that rocks Tommy hard in the closing seconds. Hagler, feeling desperation comes out with everything he has in the 10th, and manages to put Tommy away in a coem from behind win.

I like this version. Only one thing though, I don't recall Tommy ever learning to tie an opponant up. He appeared to have issues with that until he retired.

S.

 

[BrooklynBomber]

I like this version. Only one thing though, I don't recall Tommy ever learning to tie an opponant up. He appeared to have issues with that until he retired.

S.

He got better at it with age when he wasn't seriously hurt, and even in cases where he seriously was. He was able to tie up Leonard in their rematch in round 12 despite being badly hurt and stop a knockout to preserve what should have been certain victory. He only really attempted to tie men up when he was seriously hurt, which is a recipe for disaster.

 

[mozfonky]

he did in the kinchen fights, the roldan, the leonard rematch, don't understand how a great fighter overlooks such a basic technique. Happens with punchers sometimes.

 

[Necrocide]

As my good buddy Necro would say, Leonard won every second of that fight that he fought. The problem is that he only fought 30 seconds of each round, while Marvin controlled the first two and a half minutes by backing Leonard up to the ropes and scoring with left uppercuts and overhand lefts on the inside, as well as doing good body work.

This is truth. Sugar Ray Leonard won exactly six minutes of a thirty six minute fight. That decision is the worst in boxing history.