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Social how long has this cultural and political divide been going on in the US?

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Diogenes of Sinope, Nov 24, 2021.

  1. My Spot Not my bald spot. Not your dog, Spot.

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    Clinton's impeachment and the 2000 election.
     
  2. BIKES! So then I said... Platinum Member

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    Spot on. Enter back to back generations each more entitled than the next, and you’ve lost all sense of pride and love for your country, liberty, and the freedom it grants.
     
  3. MicroBrew Titanium Belt

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    Sure....
    Is that your ComebackKidd?

    Odd how the vast majority of Black people aren't stating the Civil Rights movement was bad.
     
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  4. Natural Order Cosmic Alpha

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    But there were Marxist movements specifically targeting marginalized groups in the civil rights era. It was written about at great lengths by a Black man of the period who became a Communist through these exact mechanisms.

    You can challenge whatever hiearchies are offending you, but understand that these are real things with real initiatives that did, and continue, to take place.
     
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  5. MicroBrew Titanium Belt

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    That may be true, but the Marxist accusation is often used by people on the right to attack any Civil Rights movement that sought to reduce the hegemony of White males / make America more equitable. Whether it is the Civil Rights movement, Gay rights, Women's rights, Obama, BLM etc... the right has been using the Marxist card to attack these entities. The Marxist card is also levelled against Universal Health Care, free college and better funding for social services.
     
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  6. panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    No, it didn't. Some things changed for the better, some changed for the worse (such as black teachers) but overall it didn't "hurt" black America. People tend to forget just how far ranging segregation was and all of the things that it negatively impacted for black America.
     
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  7. Bargey Silver Belt

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    It was actually pretty fierce in GWB’s first term. Before that I think most people were able to compartmentalize their politics from other parts of their world. Then it accelerated under Obama and finally exploded under Trump
     
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  8. TheRealHNIC Green Belt

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    I disagree. Integration cut us off at the knees. It also created a toxic mindset within black american that still exists to this day. This is why people like Malcolm X was against it.
     
  9. fedoriswar37 Black Belt

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    Around Obamas 2nd term. When people realized he really was just another shitty president . It then became about race . The Right ate it up while the left refused to accept it. Couple that with the rise of social media and here you are.
     
  10. Ophydian Silver Belt

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    Politicians have been trying for decades to figure out ways to keep the citizens angry at each other and not with them.
     
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  11. grimballer Gold Belt

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    there was always a divide, but this type of tribalist divide, that you mostly see in 3rd world countries, where ppl take politics personal and it destroys relationships probably started with gwb, got worse under obama and really became irreparable under trump.

    before gwb (in the 90s) there was a sort of compromise where both parties were represented by corporate centrists. republicans conceded social/cultural issues to the democrats, while democrats conceded economy/foreign policy to the republicans/neocons.

    under bush and his "war on terror" is where the divide begins. conservatives see the war as necessary to protect us against terrorism, liberals oppose it and go as far as calling bush a war criminal.

    obama comes in after 8 years of bush, and arguably one of the worse presidencies ever , with his hope and change message, but doesn't do much. instead he politicized government agencies, targets political opposition and worsens race relations. of course liberals see obama as 2nd coming and consider any criticism of obama as racism. conservatives on the other hand see him as anti christ.

    by the time trump gets into the mix both side seem to reject the status quo and establishment politicians. left wingers are now openly embracing socialism, while right wingers are pro nationalism/nativism
     
  12. Day Drinking Purple Belt

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    Marx was very specifically against degenerates.
     
  13. PrinceOfPain Gold Belt

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    From the outside looking in, things worsened sharply around 2014/2015. The memory of the GFC was still pretty bitter, and as his second term wound down, Obama hadn't really met the expectations he'd set for people on the progressive left or the blue-collar middle class. Obama had also occasionally played into identity politics, and BLM and Antifa popped up around that same time, epitomising a radicalised progressive discontent with his presidency (much like the Proud Boys would epitomize conservative discontent).
    The Syrian Civil war sparked off intensified fears about the Islamic threat, and the migrant crisis that was stirring up in Europe made it easier to bring the border into sharper focus as a divisive "compassion vs security" issue - an issue that had been simmering for a while.
    The rise of ISIS alongside deflections to racism or Islamaphobia as a response to the very mention of Islamic extremism didn't help public trust in the authorities or the media - especially not when Christian-run businesses in the US were being targeted for harassment for their owners' beliefs (I think the gay wedding cake thing happened around this time).
    Venzuela's collapse also started around 2014/2015, which added to the border concerns and added fuel to the already firey communist/capitalist debate.
    Putin's involvement in Syria, and fears of what Clinton's promised no-fly zone would do to America-Russia relations helped to set the tone of Russophobia that would come to be another partisan divide.
    The rise of China and the parallel decline of America on the world stage - emphasised by Obama's apology tour and China's sometime-disregard of him - added to domestic tensions.

    This may have all been a series of non-issues in a different time but, amplified by social media, the public conversations mostly served to highlight fundamental differences between the values underpinning each of the two sides that have formed over the ages.
     
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  14. Zazen Black Belt

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    Lol, I laughed at that too. This popped up in my head immediately.

     
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  15. panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Integration didn't cut us off at the knees. You're going to have back up that claim with something concrete.

    Otherwise, the idea that not being granted equal access to home loans, colleges, jobs, water fountains, eating establishments, gas stations while traveling, etc. was a long term benefit is simply absurd. Too many people have peddled this idea that being stuck on the bottom of the economy with almost zero chance of upward mobility was great because at least all black people were suffering together.
     
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  16. BForrester Black Belt

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    It really coincides with the rise of the internet when you look at the timeline.
     
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  17. mjfan23 Gold Belt

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    Yes internet has no doubt made propaganda and whining easier.
     
  18. White Whale Brown Belt

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    The Hart-Celler immigration act of 1965 was devastating to the working class, killing upward mobility. It was a big part of the divide.
     
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  19. 44nutman The Original Nut of Sherdog

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    It’s quite simple. Left and right wing media has figured out rage porn click bait articles, drive people to their sites, which allow them to charge a premium for the boner pill ads they run on their station. Problem is most Americans are too dumb to see they are being manipulated.
    Howard Stern also addressed a phenomenon in the 90’s when he was a shock jock, the people who hated him based on research listened longer. Propaganda media on both sides know the right click bait rage porn piece will also garner clicks from the other team. Proper headline and your basic Rube will be so angry they have to click it to read the rest.
     
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  20. luckyshot Voted Most Reasonable Platinum Member

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    Marxist ideology is about CLASS WARFARE. There is absolutely, 100% no such thing as "cultural Marxism."

    If it's about culture and not economics, it's not Marxism.

    I'm not saying that there haven't been leftist ideas about culture and identity influencing many of the nation's institutions, I'm just saying that isn't Marxism.

    There's a reason you see "Wokeism" promoted by the world's largest corporation, Amazon, Google, etc... and itvsure as hell isn't because it's "Marxism."

    They promote Wokeusm precisely because it comes WITHOUT any progressive economic agenda.

     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2021

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