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How is the US economy right now?

Prime-age LFP has barely moved the past 4 decades, it was higher during and after recessions and is a subset of total LFP which is almost 1 point lower. I'm not sure why you are dying on it's hill when it's shown to be increasingly poor at describing any economic situation in the past 40 years.
An assertion is not a demonstration. When combined with the extremely low unemployment rate and extremely high real wages, the prime-age LFP approaching all-time highs is key info (if it were not so strong, one would question whether we have more room to grow).
If composition was the whole case, explain why in January 2022 had low unemployment and higher real wages than we had in January 2024. January 2022 being almost two years after the pandemic layoffs. If the economy is booming, how come there is no real wage growth since then? Again, it points more towards a stagnant economy than a booming one. Booming economies grow, stagnant economies stay the same.
Premise is wrong. Real median wages are higher now than they were in January 2022.

More generally, what it means to say that it's a composition issue is that when unemployment rises and is high, lower-paid workers are disproportionately likely to lose their jobs so even if everyone's wages individually stagnate, the median rises because of lower-paid workers dropping out from consideration. Then as the unemployment falls and becomes low (both the level and delta matter here), lower-paid workers return, and even if everyone is getting a raise, the median can fall. If you don't adjust for that factor, you end up falsely concluding the recessions are good for workers.

You haven't proven anything has been wrong with my imputed rent analysis. The Bureau for Economic Analysis resource I linked a few pages ago also agrees with me. And the reality of consumer debt also agrees with me, if real wage growth was so high, how come consumers are taking on so much additional debt? Especially when the number one debt asset by far is mortgages. And since number of mortgages are down sharply, the debt can be assumed to be non-mortgage related, which is especially bad.

Also please answer this: do you believe that the cost of housing increased by a total of 2% from 2021 to 2023, despite mortgage costs being up 33%?

Ultimately this is going to be an argument of wait and see. In 2 years the effects of continued inflation and elevated interest rates are going to further propagate throughout the economy.
See above on this. What is your prediction about inflation over the next year?
 
The vast majority of "Typical Americans" are telling you that the economy sucks.

Not that a narcissistic psychopath like yourself cares, or has the ability to care, but them's the facts.
You're wrong. Consumer spending has remained high ever since the pandemic restrictions were lifted. That pent up demand is only now beginning to slow. People are spending like they're in a booming economy. That's actually a major difference between the American and Canadian economic performance over the last couple of years. Canadians have $75B in savings right now due to uncertainty about the economy while Americans have essentially spent their way out of the worst consequences of the pandemic, unlike every other developed economy in the world, pretty much.

"Consumer Spending in the United States increased to 15569.85 USD Billion in the fourth quarter of 2023 from 15461.38 USD Billion in the third quarter of 2023. Consumer Spending in the United States averaged 6710.12 USD Billion from 1950 until 2023, reaching an all time high of 15569.85 USD Billion in the fourth quarter of 2023 and a record low of 1487.85 USD Billion in the first quarter of 1950. source: U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis"
united-states-consumer-spending.png


This is not the sign of a weak economy. If that's not enough, consider the strength of the US dollar vs practically any other currency. International confidence in the US economy is very strong.
 
An assertion is not a demonstration. When combined with the extremely low unemployment rate and extremely high real wages, the prime-age LFP approaching all-time highs is key info (if it were not so strong, one would question whether we have more room to grow).

Premise is wrong. Real median wages are higher now than they were in January 2022.

More generally, what it means to say that it's a composition issue is that when unemployment rises and is high, lower-paid workers are disproportionately likely to lose their jobs so even if everyone's wages individually stagnate, the median rises because of lower-paid workers dropping out from consideration. Then as the unemployment falls and becomes low (both the level and delta matter here), lower-paid workers return, and even if everyone is getting a raise, the median can fall. If you don't adjust for that factor, you end up falsely concluding the recessions are good for workers.


See above on this. What is your prediction about inflation over the next year?
Again, the prime age LFP is as high as it's been for 40 years. It's not a variable that changes often or by much. It was higher during and after multiple recessions.

BLS real wages for January 2024: $11.16

BLS real wages for January 2022: $11.22

The unemployment rate in January 2022 was 4.0, in January 2024 it's 3.8, so the composition cannot explain the wage stagnation. Wage stagnation is not a sign of a booming economy. Also I imagine real wages are going to go down again with the recently announced tech layoffs, as those were a lot of high paying jobs that went away.

Do you accept my point about overall LFP and wages? And you still haven't answered if you believe housing cost increases from 2021-2023 were 2%.

I wont predict inflation because I can't predict what the Federal Reserve is going to do in response to the current stubbornly high inflation. Depending on if they choose to further increase rates, inflation may go down. But the economic impact of increasing rates will continue to have big effects outside of inflation, which the Federal Reserve is going to take into consideration.
 
You're wrong.
All your charts and graphs, have nothing to do with Americans' opinions on the economy. Go ahead, look up some polls on how Americans feel about the economy in general, and how Biden has handled it. That's all that matters.

Remember, I said "the vast majority of Americans disagree that the economy is great". Posting charts and graphs isn't a counter to that, although I'm sure you scored points with your hero, Jackie.
 
All your charts and graphs, have nothing to do with Americans' opinions on the economy. Go ahead, look up some polls on how Americans feel about the economy in general, and how Biden has handled it. That's all that matters.

Remember, I said "the vast majority of Americans disagree that the economy is great". Posting charts and graphs isn't a counter to that, although I'm sure you scored points with your hero, Jackie.
Ok

"Personal income increased $60.0 billion (0.3 percent at a monthly rate) in December. Disposable personal income (DPI)—personal income less personal current taxes—increased $51.8 billion (0.3 percent). Personal outlays—the sum of personal consumption expenditures (PCE), personal interest payments, and personal current transfer payments—increased $134.7 billion (0.7 percent) and consumer spending increased $133.9 billion (0.7 percent). Personal saving was $766.7 billion and the personal saving rate—personal saving as a percentage of disposable personal income—was 3.7 percent in December."

Awful, just awful. The American economy--so much suck.
 
Awful, just awful. The American economy--so much suck.
It doesn't matter what you think about it, or what any chart, graph, or statistical analysis says. I repeat, the VAST majority of Americans think the economy is shit. That is all that matters, and they can't eat graphs and charts for dinner.

By all means though, keep telling them they're wrong. Tell them they're too stupid to understand the charts and graphs you cite. It'll work out great...
 
It doesn't matter what you think about it, or what any chart, graph, or statistical analysis says. I repeat, the VAST majority of Americans think the economy is shit. That is all that matters, and they can't eat graphs and charts for dinner.

By all means though, keep telling them they're wrong. Tell them they're too stupid to understand the charts and graphs you cite. It'll work out great...
We'll see. I think it will work out rather well for Democrats.
 
We'll see. I think it will work out rather well for Democrats.
Sure, but there's literally nothing that would make you think otherwise. It's why you foolishly bet me that Trump was not gonna be the Republican nominee, despite all polls showing him in commanding, insurmountable lead. You(much like so many Trumpers in 2020), are gleefully ignoring the warning signs, and inventing your own reality, to remain in denial over a President who is less popular than eye snot.

We'll see, indeed.
 
It doesn't matter what you think about it, or what any chart, graph, or statistical analysis says. I repeat, the VAST majority of Americans think the economy is shit. That is all that matters, and they can't eat graphs and charts for dinner.

By all means though, keep telling them they're wrong. Tell them they're too stupid to understand the charts and graphs you cite. It'll work out great...
Credit card debts at an all time high, almost half of Americans can't afford a 1000 dollar emergency, middle class is priced out of owning a home, and a large chunk of people I went to highschool with are picking up part time gigs on top of their full time jobs to help cover the rising cost of everything.

I'm sure you can point at some statistics saying things are technically okay (especially those in the top 25%) but reality is it will be interesting to see how the next 12 to 24 months shake out. Not sustainable
 
Our quarterly meeting is tomorrow and it's my first since starting with this company. Word is we're getting a 10% cost of living adjustment. AND that they're going to roll out a new incentive structure and notify us that we're on track to receive our profit sharing bonus later this year. Pray for me sherbros lmao, daddy (literally) needs a new pair of shoes.
 
Again, the prime age LFP is as high as it's been for 40 years. It's not a variable that changes often or by much. It was higher during and after multiple recessions.
That's false, and humorously, you personally were arguing for its importance the last time you were trying to dismiss improvements in the job market.
BLS real wages for January 2024: $11.16

BLS real wages for January 2022: $11.22
Read more carefully.

fredgraph.png



The unemployment rate in January 2022 was 4.0, in January 2024 it's 3.8, so the composition cannot explain the wage stagnation. Wage stagnation is not a sign of a booming economy. Also I imagine real wages are going to go down again with the recently announced tech layoffs, as those were a lot of high paying jobs that went away.
Well, wages have been soaring for the past year and are near an all-time high (and higher than at any time before the pandemic, which artificially skewed wages up for reasons I have explained). That absolutely is a sign of a booming economy, which you would acknowledge if you didn't feel bound by partisanship to deny (and which you have acknowledged in the past, when it wasn't a matter of partisanship for you to deny).

Do you accept my point about overall LFP and wages? And you still haven't answered if you believe housing cost increases from 2021-2023 were 2%.
Your points are false, and based on statistical manipulation. As for housing, the stats are accurate. Remember that about two-thirds of Americans own the homes they live in.
I wont predict inflation because I can't predict what the Federal Reserve is going to do in response to the current stubbornly high inflation. Depending on if they choose to further increase rates, inflation may go down. But the economic impact of increasing rates will continue to have big effects outside of inflation, which the Federal Reserve is going to take into consideration.
You keep wavering between implying a prediction and then backing off. Kind of silly to say that it's been stubbornly high given how fast its fallen and how low it current is, isn't it? The reason they've been talking about cutting rates is that inflation is no longer a big concern, though because of the strength of the economy, it looms as a potential concern.
 
Our quarterly meeting is tomorrow and it's my first since starting with this company. Word is we're getting a 10% cost of living adjustment. AND that they're going to roll out a new incentive structure and notify us that we're on track to receive our profit sharing bonus later this year. Pray for me sherbros lmao, daddy (literally) needs a new pair of shoes.
Great time to be an American worker!
 
That's false, and humorously, you personally were arguing for its importance the last time you were trying to dismiss improvements in the job market.

Read more carefully.

fredgraph.png




Well, wages have been soaring for the past year and are near an all-time high (and higher than at any time before the pandemic, which artificially skewed wages up for reasons I have explained). That absolutely is a sign of a booming economy, which you would acknowledge if you didn't feel bound by partisanship to deny (and which you have acknowledged in the past, when it wasn't a matter of partisanship for you to deny).


Your points are false, and based on statistical manipulation. As for housing, the stats are accurate. Remember that about two-thirds of Americans own the homes they live in.

You keep wavering between implying a prediction and then backing off. Kind of silly to say that it's been stubbornly high given how fast its fallen and how low it current is, isn't it? The reason they've been talking about cutting rates is that inflation is no longer a big concern, though because of the strength of the economy, it looms as a potential concern.
"Employed full time" is a subset of total employment. It excludes part time work. I'm not sure why you are constantly using metrics that are subsets of the larger metrics that tell a more negative story. You never specified "full time employment real wages are up", you specified "real wages are up", so not sure why you wouldn't include part-time workers. Now if I was you, I would call this "an embarrassing, partisan mistake" and that you should "Read more carefully".

They soared because they were down from two years ago. Again, the economy has been stagnant over the past two years and arguably longer, as I have mentioned with regards to total LFPR.

Your points are false and based on statistical manipulation. Easy enough to say as well and adds nothing of value. Take it up with the BEA if you disagree with my points.

I don't make predictions based on something out of my control. It's fallen because of drastic measures taken by the Federal Reserve. If the Federal Reserve are serious about getting inflation down to 2%, then they will have to raise interest rates. Also, inflation is not low at all. Maybe compared to the disastrous past 2 years it's low. But it is higher than any time since 2011 and well above the Federal Reserve's 2% target, despite interest rates being the highest since the 07-08 recession. The difference being that inflation actually spiked in 2011 due to lowering interest rates to zero, while the high inflation today is happening despite high interest rates. The Federal Reserve has no where to go but up to lower inflation and that is going to continue to have major impacts on the economy as the effects continue to propagate throughout the economy.

And these things aren't just felt in consumer debt, government interest payments are the fastest growing part of the federal budget by far. Net interest increased by an insane jump since 2021:
interest%20hits%20new%20record.jpg.webp


Up $300 billion dollars since 2021. Any further increases in interest rates will raise it even further.
Net interest is now exceeding total spending on Medicaid, child programs, etc.

interest%20and%20other%20programs_1.jpg.webp


But there's absolutely no need to worry, right?

Unless you are going to actually argue points instead of just saying "your wrong, bro", I think I am done wasting my time here.
 
"Employed full time" is a subset of total employment.
And the subset that we're generally concerned with.
It excludes part time work. I'm not sure why you are constantly using metrics that are subsets of the larger metrics that tell a more negative story.
I'm using the same metrics people use at all times to evaluate the economy unless they're trying to spin. If we're being really honest, when people ask the question, there are generally two things they look at--unemployment rates and GDP growth. For a regular person who just wants a quick answer, that's what they care about. Someone who is more seriously looking at it would move to some deeper stuff, like median real wages, real wages, real wage growth, prime-age LFP, etc. In almost all cases, including the current time, those numbers tell the same story, though they tell it in more depth.

What's going on here is that partisans don't like the story being told, so you guys are desperately, pathetically, trying to look under the hood for some, any sign that things aren't as good as they look. And, again, we know this, because a few years ago, the economy was in a similar state, though not quite as good, as Republicans (yourself very much included) were rightly celebrating it as being good. I was on board with the analysis then, and I'm still on board with using the same basic metrics.

You never specified "full time employment real wages are up", you specified "real wages are up", so not sure why you wouldn't include part-time workers. Now if I was you, I would call this "an embarrassing, partisan mistake" and that you should "Read more carefully".
Again, that's what it means when we talk about that. It's only because you are so desperate to deny the simple, obvious reality that you're trying to look around for some reason to ignore the data.

They soared because they were down from two years ago. Again, the economy has been stagnant over the past two years and arguably longer, as I have mentioned with regards to total LFPR.
Um, no. There's no some kind of magical force that puts things on the trendline. And they only fell during the pandemic because of composition effects (which I have tried in vain to get you to understand--I have rarely encountered such denseness).
Your points are false and based on statistical manipulation. Easy enough to say as well and adds nothing of value. Take it up with the BEA if you disagree with my points.
Well, no, because I'm just using the same metrics that people always use--the ones you used yourself when partisanship didn't compel you to try to misrepresent the state of the economy.
I don't make predictions based on something out of my control.
But you have been implying a prediction. You're just running from any kind of accountability because you know that what you're saying is false.

But there's absolutely no need to worry, right?

Unless you are going to actually argue points instead of just saying "your wrong, bro", I think I am done wasting my time here.
I've argued points from the start. This is not a complicated or legitimately controversial argument. All the metrics that people look at to evaluate the state of the economy show that it is extraordinarily strong. It is fascinating to me that you'd rather make a fool of yourself for several pages than just admit that the economy is doing really well right now.

Also note that the claim that the economy is currently very strong is not a prediction that there will never be a downturn. It is a certainty that at some point, we'll have a recession.
 
Seem to hear a lot about people taking on second and even third jobs just to get by. How does that factor into this debate?
The number of Americans working two or more jobs has reached its highest level since the pandemic's start, new federal data show, a trend that suggests more of us are feeling inflation's pinch. Nearly 8.4 million people held multiple jobs in October, the Labor Department reported Friday.
 
Seem to hear a lot about people taking on second and even third jobs just to get by. How does that factor into this debate?
The number of Americans working two or more jobs has reached its highest level since the pandemic's start, new federal data show, a trend that suggests more of us are feeling inflation's pinch. Nearly 8.4 million people held multiple jobs in October, the Labor Department reported Friday.
Well, real wages are up. If higher wages and an extremely hot labor market induce more people to take second jobs, is that bad?

I think when partisans are resorting to arguing that high wages and low unemployment are bad things, the game is over.
 
the last part is exactly what i said. Quit rates during COVID went up not because people had better jobs to do, there was a lot of frustrations with the structure of the economy for low wage earners.

I view the signs of a great economy largely relates to how long the masses of persons out there have to work, to buy the average things they need and want so that they can live their life (so headline GDP usually gets a roll eyes from me).

If you're convinced that whatever your criteria is is at an all time high based on the statistics you found and formula you've created that's fine with me.
I would say the best way to judge how good an economy is how the middle class can afford housing.
 
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