How is the US economy right now?

[Iconoclast]

It might sound harsh, just understand I'm a naturally empathetic person that's very vulnerable, living in a harsh environment with no safety net. I help people when I can but I don't get to feeling sorry for people here because they're black holes and I'm surrounded by them. They'll drag me down and drown me if I let my guard down so I just can't. I don't hate them. I wish them the best and will help if it's safe for me to do so.

Raised by a single mom here as well. Props to getting out. I'm doing It too, many don't.

I can completely understand where you're coming from. I keep my guard up as well. I'm pretty street smart and think I can seperate the bullshitters from those genuinely in need. It's a fine line and I get it. I wasn't trying to come at you harshly, it's just I see a lot more people writing people in that position off instead of having empathy. I get it though, my brothers always get kinda upset if I give money or food. I want the best for people but I understand it's not that simple.

 

[Mike]

I can completely understand where you're coming from. I keep my guard up as well. I'm pretty street smart and think I can seperate the bullshitters from those genuinely in need. It's a fine line and I get it. I wasn't trying to come at you harshly, it's just I see a lot more people writing people in that position off instead of having empathy. I get it though, my brothers always get kinda upset if I give money or food. I want the best for people but I understand it's not that simple.

You get quick soundbites here that don't always tell the whole story tbf. I'm in the hood, and life has not been good lately but I still help people if I can. A homeless guy asked me for some clothes recently. I couldn't say no although I knew I should. I gave him an outfit but no money to just buy drugs with. I'll get them food if they ask but they usually just want money for drugs. If they're willing to get clean there's actual good work here. Lots of it. So you automatically know they're grifters most times.

With tragic pasts I'm sure. But everyone has a supervillain origin backstory out here. I'm interested in what you're willing to do today to make your life better. Need a ride to a job interview, food or clothes? I got you. Hell you need a hundo for new clothes for an interview? I still got you, IF I know you're not lying.

I have tremendous respect for anyone actually trying and will help if I can. But people that have just given up have to be avoided unfortunately. I don't have the resources to help them.

 

[Andy Capp]

In the case of Canada and the US its not just about drug addiction, its about housing prices and ultimately supply. To many major North American cities have committed to restrictive zoning laws for too long which has led to a deep lack of housing supply. Those things affect even the number of drug addicts on the street because lower property prices and less rad tape makes it easier to set up homeless shelters which can mean fewer unsheltered homeless.

A good example that demonstrates this is West Virginia which has one of the highest overdose rates in the country with one of the lowest rates of homelessness. Even addicts can find housing if its affordable but conversely in plaes like the Bay Area even people with jobs can't find housing because prices are so high.

Issue is this is not a federal issue but rather a local issue with some state involvement so there's not much the POTUS or Congress can do about it directly.

I was going to make this same point. Coincidentally, homelessness was the topic of discussion on the radio this morning on my commute to work. One person, apparently from the municipal government of Edmonton, Alberta, pointed out that ultimately, it's a provincial government responsibility (vs. federal) which they in turn have offloaded onto municipalities, just like they did with the welfare system 30-odd years ago.

Of course, municipalities don't have the financial resources of the entire province and they seek too cut corners at every opportunity. The person said the provincial government establish minimum standards for shelters but don't adhere to them so you have shelter beds going empty because the unhoused don't want to use them.

It's really a question of devoting sufficient resources.

@Jack V Savage regarding your comment about expanding safety nets, it's notable that in the province of Nova Scotia, during the time the COVID support funds were being issued, insolvencies went down 40%. It just goes to show how just a relatively puny* amount of extra support for people can make a big difference. But that only helps keep people from ending up out of a home and onto the street. It does nothing for the people for whom there is already no affordable place to live. Provinces/states and their municipalities really need to just shit or get off the pot on this IMHO, instead of the baby steps they're taking now.

I would add to all of this the role of half-assed harm reduction measures in major cities--at least here in Canada. They're facilitating a safer supply without all the other measures they should be taking to help lead addicts to recovery. It's gross and sad and stupid and I don't get it at all. It's not as though they haven't been told of their mistakes. Argh.

*strong emphasis on "relatively"

 

[Morning Star]

It's nowhere near as bad as 08, but not as strong as pre-pandemic. Home prices and interest rates are insane, rent and food prices are a lot higher too. My investments did much better last year than 2022, that's positive. My industry pays decent money but definitely did not keep up with inflation. I'm contemplating starting my own business, a lot of people in my industry are having much more success going independent.

 

[ShadowRun]

In Bidens words prices is too high ..

 

[Blayt7hh]

Why do you say that?

I said why. Inflation and a haywire housing market.

 

[method115]

Depends on where you live. In Texas things seem to be going well.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Um a lot of people are saying that? I only really know one person that's better off now than back then. I'd say I'm in roughly the same situation but it was a bitch pulling that off.

I'm asking him why he thinks that but of course you're free to tell me as well.

I said why. Inflation and a haywire housing market.

Sure but compared to most countries the US has weathered the inflation noticeably better and we have perhaps some of the best overall growth with the lower classes seeing larger increases which means less inequality though it also means paying more for certain services which obviously middle and upper classes are not going to like. Overall though when it comes to dealing with inflation and achieving growth the US economy is ahead of most of our peers.

The housing market is haywire precisely because of American preferences. American consistently try to block or zone out multifamily units and so we have a critical lack of supply. That was an issue before the pandemic but higher interest rates have exacerbated the problem. So yeah Americans complain about high housing prices but when push comes to shove and you try to actually do the one thing that would bring housing prices down, build housing, the average American resists tooth and nail.

 

[Sinister]

You get quick soundbites here that don't always tell the whole story tbf. I'm in the hood, and life has not been good lately but I still help people if I can. A homeless guy asked me for some clothes recently. I couldn't say no although I knew I should. I gave him an outfit but no money to just buy drugs with. I'll get them food if they ask but they usually just want money for drugs. If they're willing to get clean there's actual good work here. Lots of it. So you automatically know they're grifters most times.

With tragic pasts I'm sure. But everyone has a supervillain origin backstory out here. I'm interested in what you're willing to do today to make your life better. Need a ride to a job interview, food or clothes? I got you. Hell you need a hundo for new clothes for an interview? I still got you, IF I know you're not lying.

I have tremendous respect for anyone actually trying and will help if I can. But people that have just given up have to be avoided unfortunately. I don't have the resources to help them.

You don't always need resources to help the most unfortunate. I had a disagreement once where someone told me that giving a homeless person one serving of food is no help to them. My question was, do we believe in hope or not? Do we light candles in the darkness or do we keep feeling our way through with little sight, and whoever doesnt make it...oh well? To answer this question (and stave off survivor bias) I always remind myself how I felt at my lowest point and then ask another question: "would that single act of kindness, that one conversation, that one opportunity done anything for me?" The answer is always, yes.

One lone act even of just speaking to someone can set off a chain of events in their World. It can be the difference between another candle getting lit, vs continued darkness. If you can ever even light just one more candle you're doing fine. I was also raised by a single Mother (who is visibly a different race than me), poor most of my life, without even a clue as to how to capitalize on opportunities I wasnt even sure I had access to. One of my mentors in life always said: "You dont give yourself enough credit. Kids like you, with your background story, just dont make it. And here you are trying to do good things. You're capable of more than you think you are."

So just going by your sentiment, you're a good dude. Keep being so even if you think people are grifters. The ones who arent are worth it. Some of the ones who are mignt even be worth it, albeit that's definitely harder.

 

[mjfan23]

I don’t know about the nation but I am broke

 

[Blayt7hh]

I'm asking him why he thinks that but of course you're free to tell me as well.

Sure but compared to most countries the US has weathered the inflation noticeably better and we have perhaps some of the best overall growth with the lower classes seeing larger increases which means less inequality though it also means paying more for certain services which obviously middle and upper classes are not going to like. Overall though when it comes to dealing with inflation and achieving growth the US economy is ahead of most of our peers.

The housing market is haywire precisely because of American preferences. American consistently try to block or zone out multifamily units and so we have a critical lack of supply. That was an issue before the pandemic but higher interest rates have exacerbated the problem. So yeah Americans complain about high housing prices but when push comes to shove and you try to actually do the one thing that would bring housing prices down, build housing, the average American resists tooth and nail.

You know I literally said that America weathered it better than the rest of the world in the first post you quoted?

I think you’ve way oversimplified inflation and the housing problem. Corporate and investor purchasing of houses has spiked recently and they now own like a quarter of housing in the country. I also think you’re wrong in your characterization that inflation has only hurt the middle and upper class. Money has been devalued for a lot of reasons beyond higher lower class wages and I think the lower class of feeing the crunch the most.

 

[DiddlyDoodly]

My electric and gas bills are significantly higher now than they were before Biden was installed.

 

[UFCUCF]

I am better off than I was 4 years ago.

 

[THC]

America is still one of the richest countries by far. Everything over there is money and even the poorest have their own house and car. In germany people live in one or two room appartments.

Blue collar workers earning over 100k a year etc. Unthinkable here.

But they also like to complain about the most minor, idiotic shit, so there's that aswell.

Making 100K a year ain't shit when Pringles $3 a fucking can in GA

 

[THC]

My electric and gas bills are significantly higher now than they were before Biden was installed.

Paid my $68 single person really small house water bill 5 minutes ago.

 

[Sinister]

Making 100K a year ain't shit when Pringles $3 a fucking can in GA

Dont you listen to conservatives? Poor people dont deserve the luxury of $3 Pringles

Bootstraps ya serf

 

[DiddlyDoodly]

Paid my $68 single person really small house water bill 5 minutes ago.

My water and sewage bills are combined. It's a minimum of $120 every month for 3k gallons. Anything over 3k gallons is $15 more every 1k gallons.

Crazy to think back to when I moved in here back in 94', my water bill was $15 and my sewage was $10

My gas bill last month was the highest that it's ever been. I need to lock in with a cheaper provider.

 

[HunterAcosta]

Bout tree fiddy.

 

[Islam Imamate]

You know I literally said that America weathered it better than the rest of the world in the first post you quoted?

I think you’ve way oversimplified inflation and the housing problem. Corporate and investor purchasing of houses has spiked recently and they now own like a quarter of housing in the country. I also think you’re wrong in your characterization that inflation has only hurt the middle and upper class. Money has been devalued for a lot of reasons beyond higher lower class wages and I think the lower class of feeing the crunch the most.

Corporate investors account for only a fraction of the housing stock, in fact its about 2.5% at its highest which is 1/10th the number you cited

Spoiler

The vast majority of investors are small ones, so called "mom and pop" investors

Spoiler

The people buying these properties are usually older homeowners who have extra cash to invest in a 2nd rental property. These people got an influx of cash with the COVID bucks and then used the low interest rate to buy up homes and drive the prices up beyond the reach of first time buyers during the pandemic. The fact that 30% of homes are owned by investors is not in and of itself the problem though, its the fact that there is low housing stock so only older, financially secure households have the money to invest in housing. These small investors overlap with the boomer homeowner that tries to block any multifamily housing in their area. They already own their own home and because of this try to block new housing to protect their home value while also buying up the remaining SFH stock to rent out. Quite the diabolical plan if you ask me.

 

[Blayt7hh]

Corporate investors account for only a fraction of the housing stock, in fact its about 2.5% at its highest which is 1/10th the number you cited

Spoiler

The vast majority of investors are small ones, so called "mom and pop" investors

Spoiler

The people buying these properties are usually older homeowners who have extra cash to invest in a 2nd rental property. These people got an influx of cash with the COVID bucks and then used the low interest rate to buy up homes and drive the prices up beyond the reach of first time buyers during the pandemic. The fact that 30% of homes are owned by investors is not in and of itself the problem though, its the fact that there is low housing stock so only older, financially secure households have the money to invest in housing. These small investors overlap with the boomer homeowner that tries to block any multifamily housing in their area. They already own their own home and because of this try to block new housing to protect their home value while also buying up the remaining SFH stock to rent out. Quite the diabolical plan if you ask me.

Again that's a bit of an oversimplification though. 'Mom and pop' home owners for the most part don't work together and therefore can't really influence the market. Mom and pop places also wont collude together to block new housing development. While some of them may vote that way out of self interest, I'm sure their are plenty that don't consider it or even more likely, don't vote at all. The other problem is the sheer volume of sales that have gone to corporate investors. I think I read somewhere that since the COVID boom its been around 20% of homes sold that have gone to large investors. Just think about what that has done to the cost of housing if they are buying up 1/5th of available housing during a period of high demand.

I haven't researched this enough, but it also seems like a lot of their purchases are buying up large swaths of the same area. That's going to give them local monopoly like powers in the future. So like I said the housing thing is a problem I don't fully understand and I don't know what direction this is going to take in the future, but I know there are some serious problems that are going to lead to either a bubble burst or a long term price hike in housing that is going to turn home buyers into virtual indentured servants.

One thing I think that is interesting and maybe an uncorrelated parallel but hauntingly similar is that the collapse of the Roman Republic began in large part due to wealthy nobles gobbling up all the land and then holding a monopoly over all the other classes. Julius Ceaser's agenda to break up those monopolies (which of course weren't called that at the time) was one of the things that garnered him a lot of support over the Senate.