How can Canelo be 'Great' when..

@Roids please answer this, why don't you rate bjs caleb plant and callum smith. How would you compare their resume with david benavidez.
 
This thread is still going? Yikes.
 
Kovalev and Mosely were definitely NOT in their prime when they fought Canelo. Cotto, on the other hand, was actually fighting the best I'd ever seen him fight in his career by the time he fought Canelo. That was actually a competitive fight until Canelo started pulling away. So I can't take that win away from him. Golovkin was probably still in his prime at that point, maybe approaching the end of it. Now Golovkin probably is past it but he was fresh by the time he fought Canelo.
 
is a said:
Were they still top ranked in their weight division when Canelo fought them though? If they're ranked (and I mean top 5), they're probably not that far off their primes when Canelo fought them.
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lol @ taking boxing rankings seriously when judging fighters.

what-wut said:
lease answer this, why don't you rate bjs caleb plant and callum smith. How would you compare their resume with david benavidez
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Their resume's are comparable to Davids, BJS is not even a legit SM though. Its not just about a resume its the eye test. all of them have often looked mediocre in some fights, while Benavidez steam rollers everyone.

KeithHackneyballpunch said:
do you not consider Miguel Cotto to have been "great" at the time Canelo fought him?
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How could he have been great at 35 after so many wars?

cuban23 said:
Cotto, on the other hand, was actually fighting the best I'd ever seen him fight in his career by the time he fought Canelo. That was actually a competitive fight until Canelo started pulling away
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He cannot have been at his best at that stage of his career, and there is little evidence of it really. He beat an ancient Martinz and Geale before he fought Canelo. In reality everyone was expecting Canelo to stop Cotto before the fight, yet he made Cotto look vintage again. That says more about Canelo's lack of greatness than Cotto's greatness.
 
is a said:
By that logic, does this mean that fighters who are still under 30 have already reached their athletic prime, and their ability starts to decrease right after they turn 30?

Debatable, but it's not like there hasn't been fighters who have been in better shape than they were ever before despite being in their mid to late 30s, such as Mayweather (who beat the hell out of a young Canelo), Bernard Hopkins, Larry Holmes (who even after his 40s still was a title contender in the early 90s, etc).

Also, that Kovalev win was still phenomenal because the disadvantage that Kovalev had due to him somewhat passing his prime was mitigated by Canelo fighting at a weight class completely outside of his actual size.

The bolded part is a rare trait that not a lot of fighters in their respective divisions tend to take in their career step.
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30 is a neat number. Most fighters peak out by 32. This is around the time the experience is high, but the body has already peaked. Even earlier if they are high pressure fighters. Many by 30 start to fade (Frazier, for example). You mentioned Bhop and Holmes who fought with a style that didn't not place the demands on the body like a high volume fighter. The fights are bad, the training really burns you out. Trust me.

Kovalev was past it and even his camp said they wanted to fight him right after the Yarde fight because of his poor recovery and discipline lately. I can't believe you think the timing of that win is merit able.
 
deucesarewild said:
30 is a neat number. Most fighters peak out by 32. This is around the time the experience is high, but the body has already peaked. Even earlier if they are high pressure fighters. Many by 30 start to fade (Frazier, for example). You mentioned Bhop and Holmes who fought with a style that didn't not place the demands on the body like a high volume fighter. The fights are bad, the training really burns you out. Trust me.

Kovalev was past it and even his camp said they wanted to fight him right after the Yarde fight because of his poor recovery and discipline lately. I can't believe you think the timing of that win is merit able.
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Hopkins did have a pretty high volume style for most of his 20s. Even in his 30s, he threw over 800 punches several times (and threw a ton against Trinidad). He had the ability to box (which Golovkin had, as well, even if it wasn't to Hopkins' level) which he cultivated and used to adapt, but he threw a lot of punches earlier in his career.
 
Roids said:
lol @ taking boxing rankings seriously when judging fighters.



Their resume's are comparable to Davids, BJS is not even a legit SM though. Its not just about a resume its the eye test. all of them have often looked mediocre in some fights, while Benavidez steam rollers everyone.



How could he have been great at 35 after so many wars?



He cannot have been at his best at that stage of his career, and there is little evidence of it really. He beat an ancient Martinz and Geale before he fought Canelo. In reality everyone was expecting Canelo to stop Cotto before the fight, yet he made Cotto look vintage again. That says more about Canelo's lack of greatness than Cotto's greatness.
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Benavidez is obviously a big talent in boxing and people recognize that, but that's all he is. He could get a fight with Canelo and people wouldn't have an issue with it, but to think he's done enough to demand a fight with Canelo is delusional. He's beaten Anthony Dirrell; that' it. Benavidez is like Tank Davis. He needs to show he's serious about boxing for more than a few months and beat some top fighters to force the issue.
 
JayE said:
Hopkins did have a pretty high volume style for most of his 20s. Even in his 30s, he threw over 800 punches several times (and threw a ton against Trinidad). He had the ability to box (which Golovkin had, as well, even if it wasn't to Hopkins' level) which he cultivated and used to adapt, but he threw a lot of punches earlier in his career.
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Yup, which was not sustainable, which is why he changed. Plus he started in his 2ps so the wear and tear was less on his body compared to most high pressure fighters. He could fight later into his life. Comparing the psyche of fighters is like comparing fish to monkeys. You could rip on Hagler for the same thing as GGG. Both didn't overhaul who they were. Hagler just benefitted from A listers with balls going after him in his prime (and then Leonard who admitted he waited until Hagler slipped, just as Canelo did)
 
deucesarewild said:
Yup, which was not sustainable, which is why he changed. Plus he started in his 2ps so the wear and tear was less on his body compared to most high pressure fighters. He could fight later into his life. Comparing the psyche of fighters is like comparing fish to monkeys. You could rip on Hagler for the same thing as GGG. Both didn't overhaul who they were. Hagler just benefitted from A listers with balls going after him in his prime (and then Leonard who admitted he waited until Hagler slipped, just as Canelo did)
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Golovkin did have the misfortune of running into a wasteland of a MW division that largely wanted to carve our their own small title reigns without fighting anyone serious. This manifested in tons of them refusing to fight him for a few years. Hopkins still threw a ton of punches well into his mid 30s (and he had been stabbed several times in his life, one time collapsing his lung). I don't think Golovkin was in his prime, but I don't see him as being far outside of it, either. He was never in with a true top fighter until Jacobs in a fight he arguably lost, and his success against Canelo came from his stamina and craft, not physical strength or power. Head to head, prime for prime, I think Golovkin might get the better of prime Canelo (I think Canelo has continued to get better, but I'll use 2nd fight Canelo as the model), which is unfortunate for Golovkin, but resume is mostly what people remember. It would be razor close, either way.
 
JayE said:
Benavidez is obviously a big talent in boxing and people recognize that, but that's all he is. He could get a fight with Canelo and people wouldn't have an issue with it, but to think he's done enough to demand a fight with Canelo is delusional.
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Ok. is he first on the list at 168 in your opinion? Or hasn't he even earned that right yet?
 
JayE said:
He's a great fight for Canelo. Charlo coming up is clearly better. Benavidez should start clearing out good fighters at 68 or 75.
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So he still has not proved enough to be worthy is your official position?
 
So a MW fighter with ZERO fights at 168, is the most worthy opponent for Canelo at 168 ahead of unbeaten 2 time 168 champion who is ranked 1? Do you really believe the delusional nonsense you are peddling?
 
Roids said:
So a MW fighter with ZERO fights at 168, is the most worthy opponent for Canelo at 168 ahead of unbeaten 2 time 168 champion who is ranked 1? Do you really believe the delusional nonsense you are peddling?
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I mean, why did they let hopeless Roberto Duran fight Ray Leonard back in 1980 ?

Face it : you’re not very good at this.
 
And your comparing charlo to duran? lol! Was Ray ducking anyone in his division at that point in time?
 
Roids said:
And your comparing charlo to duran? lol! Was Ray ducking anyone in his division at that point in time?
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this would be a valid argument if you weren’t the only moron suggesting canelo is ducking david fucking benavidez lmao
 
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