How can Canelo be 'Great' when..

[listrahtes]

What layers did she show against Plant? Chasing him around the ring throwing hay makers which he eventually landed? His opposition has gotten worse since GGG, so it gives the illusion of all the bullshit people like you talk about. In reality he will get exposed if he fights a real elite boxer or beast. Plant is a decent boxer but nowhere near elite and he still had a very competitive fight. To me he is the same basic fighter he always was and I won't change my mind until he out classes or just beats a legit elite opponent.

I havent seen the Plant fight in total. Dont want to comment on that . Regarding development I mean the last 8 years. His ability to read his opponents, walk through punches and keep the pressure on, shortening his punches, his more and more pinpoint refined economic footwork, his slips and counters. His ring IQ. There is imo a continuing learning curve through the last 8 years.

 

[Hagler]

I havent seen the Plant fight in total. Dont want to comment on that . Regarding development I mean the last 8 years. His ability to read his opponents, walk through punches and keep the pressure on, shortening his punches, his more and more pinpoint refined economic footwork, his slips and counters. His ring IQ. There is imo a continuing learning curve through the last 8 years.

That’s fairly obvious when you do pay attention to what you see. The adjustments he made for GGG 2 were key.

 

[Roids]

I havent seen the Plant fight in total. Dont want to comment on that . Regarding development I mean the last 8 years. His ability to read his opponents, walk through punches and keep the pressure on, shortening his punches, his more and more pinpoint refined economic footwork, his slips and counters. His ring IQ. There is imo a continuing learning curve through the last 8 years.

That all sounds nice on paper but ultimately the only real way you can test it, is actually in a fight vs elite opponents, and he has not fought one since GGG, so its easier to look better and improved vs weaker opposition. Against Plant he was hitting a lot of air, had no jab and just chased Plant around throwing hay makers for much of the fight.

As usual this is ignored because he got the stoppage but his boxing skill did not look impressive to me vs a fighter not in the class of a Floyd. Then you need to imagine what if his opponent had been Floyd, and it is not flattering.

btw I recently watched the Lara fight as I have been hearing so much about how Lara apparently beat him or drew, and I actually scored it 8-4 to Canelo. I thought Lara was generally pathetic and did fk all apart from a few good shots occasionally. No way he won or drew that fight, believe it or not i'm really a hater.

 

[listrahtes]

@Roids
Well maybe the next opponent will give you more perspective on Canelos skill level. I do hope it will be an interesting challenge and clash of fighting styles.

 

[ferrisjso]

I think that’s a little harsh. He has wins over at least near prime Chavez, Camacho, and Whitaker. Couple that with a gold medal, a pretty face, and an exciting style, and you’ve got the closest thing to guaranteed superstardom, and it was well deserved.

I see Oscar as a fairly typical superstar. He won some starmaker fights on the way up against slightly aged forces of nature when he was at his best weight, and then he aged and fought up a bit, and became the starmaker.

If you see the post I was responding to it was portraying De La Hoya on a different level than Alvarez. Him being a "fairly typical superstar" is fair as you describe it.

 

[bjl12]

What layers did she show against Plant? Chasing him around the ring throwing hay makers which he eventually landed? His opposition has gotten worse since GGG, so it gives the illusion of all the bullshit people like you talk about. In reality he will get exposed if he fights a real elite boxer or beast. Plant is a decent boxer but nowhere near elite and he still had a very competitive fight. To me he is the same basic fighter he always was and I won't change my mind until he out classes or just beats a legit elite opponent.

So who is an elite opponent ? They're rare.

 

[Hagler]

So who is an elite opponent ? They're rare.

David Benavidez, of course. He beat this dude from Romania.

 

[bjl12]

David Benavidez, of course. He beat this dude from Romania.

The reality is there is not 1 single elite opponent from 160-175 outside of winner of Beterbiev v Bivol.

Any poster can say otherwise but its hype and not truth

 

[Hagler]

The reality is there is not 1 single elite opponent from 160-175 outside of winner of Beterbiev v Bivol.

Any poster can say otherwise but its hype and not truth

I tend to agree. There is potential in a few guys, including Benavidez, but they need to actually deliver the goods.

 

[Roids]

So who is an elite opponent ? They're rare.

Only Benavidez at 168, and no co incidence he is the only top dog Canelo has not fought at 168. At 175, maybe Beterbiev and of course Canelo isn't fighting him either. Notice a trend?

 

[Mr2urbo]

I always thought De La Hoya was overrated, he’s only beaten one fighter in their prime and that was Quartey who many thought won, the rest of De La Hoya’s wins were against older and past their primes

I do rate his win over Mago pretty high, he was a good fighter, very underrated

 

[bjl12]

Only Benavidez at 168, and no co incidence he is the only top dog Canelo has not fought at 168. At 175, maybe Beterbiev and of course Canelo isn't fighting him either. Notice a trend?

Please explain how Benavidez is elite. What specifically has he done to be regarded as elite?

 

[PUO3]

Benavidez is elite, by doing absolutely jack shit, but “How can Canelo be great?”

Should just ban your ass for trolling at this point. There is no way anyone is legitimately this stupid and ridiculous.

 

[Roids]

Please explain how Benavidez is elite. What specifically has he done to be regarded as elite?

Youngest ever SM WC, 2 time WC, undefeated, 25 wins 22 ko, and smashed every opponent he ever fought. Pretty good metric. Go ahead and give me your metric?

 

[Roids]

Benavidez is elite, by doing absolutely jack shit, but “How can Canelo be great?”

Should just ban your ass for trolling at this point. There is no way anyone is legitimately this stupid and ridiculous.

I'm a troll and should be banned for daring to claim Benavidez is an elite fighter? You are losing control again...

 

[Zebra Cheeks]

I'm a troll and should be banned for daring to claim Benavidez is an elite fighter? You are losing control again...

I mean he has a point. You’re the same guy who was parading around about how khabibs not that good because he never moved up to 170.

And you also think Canelo is overrated?

Either you’re trolling or shitty takes is your thing. Judgement free zone but you didn’t exactly back anything up with real evidence. No proof of declines. No stats about the fighters losing before they fought him. Nothing concrete about declines. Just age. That’s pretty weak, dawg.

 

[PUO3]

I'm a troll and should be banned for daring to claim Benavidez is an elite fighter? You are losing control again...

You shit on Canelo’s resume while praising Benavidez’. Yes. You are a shitty stupid troll.

 

[Roids]

I mean he has a point. You’re the same guy who was parading around about how khabibs not that good because he never moved up to 170.

I said Khabib is overrated because he never moved up like many other fighters in the sport have. That is a legit point that many agree with.

Either you’re trolling or shitty takes is your thing. Judgement free zone but you didn’t exactly back anything up with real evidence. No proof of declines. No stats about the fighters losing before they fought him. Nothing concrete about declines. Just age. That’s pretty weak, dawg.

This forum is full of shitty takes, like claiming Canelo is one of the most complete fighters of all time and that he beats Usyk, yet apparently that's not trolling but daring to claim Canelo is overrated is trolling? I backed up my case by detailing the ages of fighters he fought, when it is generally accepted that mid 30s is past prime for fighters. Now I claim Benavidez is elite and get threatened with a ban, its ridiculous.

 

[Roids]

You shit on Canelo’s resume while praising Benavidez’. Yes. You are a shitty stupid troll.

Its called having a different opinion to yours. I never praised David's resume. I defended it vs Charlo, Again nuance which you struggle with.

 

[PUO3]

Its called having a different opinion to yours. I never praised David's resume. I defended it vs Charlo, Again nuance which you struggle with.

Youre calling him elite. You suck off his resume literally every day here pretending its good while the entire forum laughs at your shitty hot takes.

It is laughable at best and that is being generous. Its actually one of the most idiotic debates Ive ever seen in my 15+ years of reading idiotic debates here.