Opinion Hegseth to U.S. generals: "Prepare for war."

[oldshadow]

Did you see anyone in that crowd that was clearly more obese than Trump?

Whats the physical standards for president. I believe he passes them.

 

[oldshadow]

If you had to wait for a SCOTUS ruling then nobody would ever refuse an unlawful order....

They can roll the dice anytime they want and see what happens.

 

[Darkballs]

You cannot just refuse an order without consequences.

You can if the order is clearly illegal.

Nor, as you just straight up lied about, is a service member required to follow any order until SCOTUS rules on the issue. The "I was just following orders," is known as the Nuremberg Defense, because that's what the Nazi fucks tried to argue. Got them hanged. For the simple reason that, you can't just insulate you side from illegal conduct by having one guy issues unconstitutional orders. If a member of the US military breaks the law, he cannot hide behind the defense that he was following an order.

And as a side, as a former Marine who served in both Afghanistan and Iraq in the infantry, Hegseth's speech was gay as fuck. I bumped into dipshit like him all the time. Any guy who runs his mouth that much, and droned on about vague concepts like the warrior ethos, were the guys coming in dead last in every evaluation. Good Marines are the ones that know their job. And they don't have to go about projecting some air of badassery, because everyone knows, just by virtue of working together, who know's their shit and who doesn't.

 

[oldshadow]

You can if the order is clearly illegal.

Nor, as you just straight up lied about, is a service member required to follow any order until SCOTUS rules on the issue. The "I was just following orders," is known as the Nuremberg Defense, because that's what the Nazi fucks tried to argue. Got them hanged. For the simple reason that, you can't just insulate you side from illegal conduct by having one guy issues unconstitutional orders. If a member of the US military breaks the law, he cannot hide behind the defense that he was following an order.

And as a side, as a former Marine who served in both Afghanistan and Iraq in the infantry, Hegseth's speech was gay as fuck. I bumped into dipshit like him all the time. Any guy who runs his mouth that much, and droned on about vague concepts like the warrior ethos, were the guys coming in dead last in every evaluation. Good Marines are the ones that know their job. And they don't have to go about projecting some air of badassery, because everyone knows, just by virtue of working together, who know's their shit and who doesn't.

Read my post I said you can refuse any order but you go to the brig and they sort it out in a court martial. You are going to have to prove it was an unlawful order. Well thats in peace time anyway. In war time in a combat zone it could go very differently.

You should know this.

 

[Area809]

Read my post I said you can refuse any order but you go to the brig and they sort it out in a court martial. You are going to have to prove it was an unlawful order. Well thats in peace time anyway. In war time in a combat zone it could go very differently.

You should know this.

Well no. Going to the brig depends on the situation. All this stuff is clearly stated in the UCMJ, not up for debate.

 

[oldshadow]

Well no. Going to the brig depends on the situation. All this stuff is clearly stated in the UCMJ, not up for debate.

What are your odds of not going to the brig if you refuse an direct order and keep refusing it up the chain.

 

[Area809]

What are your odds of not going to the brig if you refuse an direct order and keep refusing it up the chain.

High odds you don’t go to the brig. Your movements may be restricted to the barracks or within the base. But you’re not going to the brig during pretrial unless you’re suspected to be a flight risk.

 

[oldshadow]

High odds you don’t go to the brig. Your movements may be restricted to the barracks or within the base. But you’re not going to the brig during pretrial unless you’re suspected to be a flight risk.

Things have changed a lot since I was in then.

 

[Strychnine]

This breaks down the meeting into crayons.

 

[Area809]

Things have changed a lot since I was in then.

I went to boot camp January of 2002. Was the UCMJ different before then?

 

[Darkballs]

Read my post I said you can refuse any order but you go to the brig and they sort it out in a court martial. You are going to have to prove it was an unlawful order. Well thats in peace time anyway. In war time in a combat zone it could go very differently.

You should know this.

You're just making up a stupid scenario where it plays out that way. There is no "despite it being an unlawful order, you still immediately go to the brig the second it's refused."

That isn't how the USMJ is written, nor is what you are saying within the bounds of the Constitution. If you want to argue that, practically, you might want to have your ducks in a row before you just refuse an order, fine. But the notion that any order, no matter how unlawful, must be followed or else jail time, is a straight up lie.

 

[oldshadow]

I went to boot camp January of 2002. Was the UCMJ different before then?

Probably not but how they handled things were i can say where. I got out in 77. I saw guys sent the brig for a lot of things. I almost got sent a couple of times.

 

[oldshadow]

You're just making up a stupid scenario where it plays out that way. There is no "despite it being an unlawful order, you still immediately go to the brig the second it's refused."

That isn't how the USMJ is written, nor is what you are saying within the bounds of the Constitution. If you want to argue that, practically, you might want to have your ducks in a row before you just refuse an order, fine. But the notion that any order, no matter how unlawful, must be followed or else jail time, is a straight up lie.

I agree if its so bad that is obvious to anyone its unlawful you are not going to the brig. However thats a very rare case.

 

[Darkballs]

I agree if its so bad that is obvious to anyone its unlawful you are not going to the brig. However thats a very rare case.

Well we can make up a thousand different hypotheticals, but what the actual law says is: You have to follow lawful orders, you have no obligation to follow unlawful ones. And if you break any law, YOU will be held responsible.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Whats the physical standards for president. I believe he passes them.

How is he going to pass something that doesn't exist? I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of wanting senior decision makers to be fit while the only exercise he gets is carting around golf courses and is obese himself.

 

[Substance Abuse]

 

[Area809]

I’m sure there’s at least one officer somewhere who regrets promoting this clown during his military career.

 

[oldshadow]

Well we can make up a thousand different hypotheticals, but what the actual law says is: You have to follow lawful orders, you have no obligation to follow unlawful ones. And if you break any law, YOU will be held responsible.

So you and everybody else is an expert on what is an unlawful order. Then we go back to who can officially decide what a lawful order is.

 

[Blayt7hh]

Yeah. Had a great convo with 2 jags about it. It boiled down to, "unless it is very obviously illegal (killing civilians, stealing shit, etc) then let military lawyers handle it on the back end".

The focus is on the marines that were deployed to California a few months back, but he talks about how difficult it is to navigate and doesn’t recommend risking refusing an order.

 

[oldshadow]

How is he going to pass something that doesn't exist? I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of wanting senior decision makers to be fit while the only exercise he gets is carting around golf courses and is obese himself.

I would say the 25th amendment sets the standards.

Again and some here dont want to read. They should be required to meet the standards for their age, rank and their mos. Then medical wavers can be in affect on a case by case basis. At the top of that chain of command is the secretary of war and the president. And yes they should consider the input of their top brass.