Buddy, if you make an argument citing a concrete claim, provide receipts, otherwise shut up. Especially when you have a history of not reading your own sources.There are a few but I am not playing this game. You have Google so feel free to skim through them. You're claiming I outright made it up and that's not the case. There are quite a few allusions to lootings in these figures.
I evaluate claims case by case.Oh so Israeli intelligence can't be trusted for other things but is suddenly trustworthy here?
Ok, let me pretend to be you or other posters here who constantly say or imply shit, what if Israeli intelligence only released that info to create the impression that Hamas is losing control and power to give confidence to other groups to fight them? It's no more crazy a theory than the "iSraEl iS BeHiNd 10/7" crowd.
I've posted the literal response you misread, you're just doubling down on your inability to read and mendacity.Go reread your own posts I am not playing this game.
I am not making any extraordinary claims. You can literally find allusions to 4500 calories with a simple Google search. Is it every fucking month from start to end? No...but some sources say that some months the caloric imports were more than double the minimum in non perishable goods.
Where did I claim my family or I lived through a Holocaust.Sure thing just like some people loosely use Holocaust to mean something other than what most people understand it to mean. I get it you and your family lived through the "Holocaust"...and by that you mean genocide in Cambodia in the 90s because clearly that's what people think of when they hear that term.
My point is that you you keep moving goal posts and repeatedly misrepresent reality and what you said or meant. You do 180 turns without a shred of awareness. Maybe you do it unconsciously/unintentionally but you've done it with me and Ally.
Your family living through hardships decades ago is not the same as you having lived through those hardships and it's dumb to feign like you did.
You were born in the US? Right? By all means ignore this question. We know the answer.
How's that? Is that clear? You can't judge people in tough predicaments while living in the luxury of safety of the strongest military on earth. It's easy to virtue signal when terrorists or hostile regimes are not trying to annihilate your people in a place you live. This is not in some hypothetical world of your relatives decades ago.
Someone like you would probably clutch his pearls if Baltic countries as an example start using banned weapons along their borders to prevent or at least slow down a very possible Russian invasion where as I fully understand and support it. I also don't expect one side to abide by some rules of engagement whereas not having those same expectations of their enemy. You of course disagree. I fully support Ukrainians taking out Russian civilian infrastructure and I can't believe it took four fucking years to finally start doing it whereas you'd tell me about Ukraine trying to be a democracy and should be held to a higher standard just like you do with Israel. I of course laugh at that idiotic logic.
I did. Keep trying.Buddy, if you make an argument citing a concrete claim, provide receipts, otherwise shut up. Especially when you have a history of not reading your own sources.
Hamas are in charge. What happens is on them whether explicitly or implicitly.I evaluate claims case by case.
If your argument is that saying Hamas isn't stealing aid but other groups are stealing aid, that would kind of make Hamas look good. It's not like the average Gazan reads the New York Times.
Great. I was worried for a minute.I consider the Israel behind 10/7 theory to be as absurd as FDR knew Pearl Harbor was going to be attacked. It makes no sense.
So these numbers were published and then revised? So they were published? So I didn't just pull that number out of thin air....So 4167 is still double the minimum calories expected per person.I'm sure there were blue on blue incidents that haven't been investigated or have been brushed under the rug for now, but there are easier ways to go to war then handing over hundreds of hostages you have to then rescue.
I've posted the literal response you misread, you're just doubling down on your inability to read and mendacity.
The study you're referring to is junk and has been discussed multiple times in this thread. It's original claim or 4,500 calories for April 2024 was revised down by authors to 4,167 because they screwed up. It also only tracks aid into Gaza, not whether it is actually distributed properly there.
Where did I claim my family or I lived through a Holocaust.
Again this was just shitposting along with the Holocaust comment...I think you are being intentionally dense here.... The point is you're using weird language to initially misrepresent your background and then 'correct' the record afterwards with shit that makes no sense.Genocide in Cambodia wasn't in the 90s, how are you so uninformed?
The idea that only Israel or those who lived through war can judge its actions are on the face dumb.
Ukraine only did so because it was forced to it by the US. Ukraine has been repeatedly fucked over by both the Biden and Trump administrations. At this point I don't know who was worse. Ukrainians should have bombed Russian civilian energy infrastructure from the start when Russia started doing that.And once again, you keep assuming things and making an ass out of yourselves. Ukraine has been quite constrained in what it can target during this war, and I have no issues with targeting bridges and other critical dual use infrastructure in Russia. By and large, Ukraine has fought to a much higher standard of observing humanitarian laws than Israel has, whether due to necessity, choice or anything else.
It’s hilarious seeing you trying to pretend to be objective and open to alternative narratives. You’re full of shit. Gaslight king.Buddy, if you make an argument citing a concrete claim, provide receipts, otherwise shut up. Especially when you have a history of not reading your own sources.
I evaluate claims case by case.
If your argument is that saying Hamas isn't stealing aid but other groups are stealing aid, that would kind of make Hamas look good. It's not like the average Gazan reads the New York Times.
I consider the Israel behind 10/7 theory to be as absurd as FDR knew Pearl Harbor was going to be attacked. It makes no sense.
I'm sure there were blue on blue incidents that haven't been investigated or have been brushed under the rug for now, but there are easier ways to go to war then handing over hundreds of hostages you have to then rescue.
I've posted the literal response you misread, you're just doubling down on your inability to read and mendacity.
The study you're referring to is junk and has been discussed multiple times in this thread. It's original claim or 4,500 calories for April 2024 was revised down by authors to 4,167 because they screwed up. It also only tracks aid into Gaza, not whether it is actually distributed properly there.
Where did I claim my family or I lived through a Holocaust.
Genocide in Cambodia wasn't in the 90s, how are you so uninformed?
The idea that only Israel or those who lived through war can judge its actions are on the face dumb.
And once again, you keep assuming things and making an ass out of yourselves. Ukraine has been quite constrained in what it can target during this war, and I have no issues with targeting bridges and other critical dual use infrastructure in Russia. By and large, Ukraine has fought to a much higher standard of observing humanitarian laws than Israel has, whether due to necessity, choice or anything else.
You straight up lied about what the headline of the article said and then claimed you didn't read the article.I did. Keep trying.
Awfully convenient logic that strips Israel of any responsibility for conditions in Gaza. I wonder why.Hamas are in charge. What happens is on them whether explicitly or implicitly.
Almost every single country that has suffered famine had enough food to go around. What causes famines is poor distribution and allocation within the area, aka market failures. Israel heavily contributed in this case.So these numbers were published and then revised? So they were published? So I didn't just pull that number out of thin air....So 4167 is still double the minimum calories expected per person.
That you don't read enough to understand that pogrom has been a genericized term for decades is on you. There's no attempt to misrepresent, I posted this comment below much earlier in the year, with amazing typos and all.Again this was just shitposting along with the Holocaust comment...I think you are being intentionally dense here.... The point is you're using weird language to initially misrepresent your background and then 'correct' the record afterwards with shit that makes no sense.
American through and through, that's me.My family is Chinese Indonesian Christian and lived through the pograms and Suharto years. Yet you don't see me advocating for the death penalty of native Indonesians or poltical Islamists claiming they need to be moved away from my loved ones. Like I said: balancing act.
You mentioned your family's background like it has fuck all to do with anything with you here and now. You didn't live through any genocide. You didn't live through any hardships to do with that. You were born in the US right?
I don't claim to be objective, I've noted my biases in this thread previously. Your "you aren't open to alternative narratives" line is like Alex Jones claiming someone isn't open minded enough on Sandy Hook.It’s hilarious seeing you trying to pretend to be objective and open to alternative narratives. You’re full of shit. Gaslight king.
Again you blatantly lie about the basics. The elementary school shit. It invalidates your position on the topic. All you have is muh UN daddy says so.I don't claim to be objective, I've noted my biases in this thread previously. Your "you aren't open to alternative narratives" line is like Alex Jones claiming someone isn't open minded enough on Sandy Hook.
Sure buddy, everyone is out to get Israel and lying about there being mass starvation in Gaza, only Israel is telling the truth on that matter.
What basics am I lying about?Again you blatantly lie about the basics. The elementary school shit. It invalidates your position on the topic. All you have is muh UN daddy says so.
I didn't lie about anything. It's weird that you keep saying that.You straight up lied about what the headline of the article said and then claimed you didn't read the article.
You keep playing apologetics for Hamas over and over. You happily turn what you say 180 depending on the context to help your argument.Awfully convenient logic that strips Israel of any responsibility for conditions in Gaza. I wonder why.
You can point the finger at multiple parties but Hamas controls the area. Surely the agencies that are used for all sorts of information without a second thought from the West are also responsible for helping Gazans do the most basic shit like distributing the food aid? I forgot, they only count bodies under collapsed buildings.Almost every single country that has suffered famine had enough food to go around. What causes famines is poor distribution and allocation within the area, aka market failures. Israel heavily contributed in this case.
And some people now use Holocaust in a similar context or misuse other words. When you use words you should know what their primary meanings are...had you said genocide in X area circa Y period it would have been far clearer than saying pogrom lol...It's like using royal forces instead of imperial forces even though they are similar but there's a clear distinction... you're probably thinking different parts of the world when hearing those terms...That you don't read enough to understand that pogrom has been a genericized term for decades is on you. There's no attempt to misrepresent, I posted this comment below much earlier in the year, with amazing typos and all.
American through and through, that's me.
I've noted that someone like Romeo Dallaire, one of the most senior Western officers alive to have been on the ground during a genocide, believes genocide is occurring in Gaza.
You only trot out the "but you aren't qualified to have an option on Gaza" refrain when you don't have any argument.
These two statements in the English language are not identical, which is your inane argument. Are starving Palestinians Hamas?I didn't lie about anything. It's weird that you keep saying that.
Hamas stole upwards of 90% of aid.
I think you mean apologies or apologize, but any who, quote where I've apologized for Hamas. You keep mistaking observations and historical facts with my morals.You keep playing apologetics for Hamas over and over. You happily turn what you say 180 depending on the context to help your argument.
You mean the agencies that the IDF kept on attacking and killing?You can point the finger at multiple parties but Hamas controls the area. Surely the agencies that are used for all sorts of information without a second thought from the West are also responsible for helping Gazans do the most basic shit like distributing the food aid? I forgot, they only count bodies under collapsed buildings.
Afraid to admit I'm American? It's not a secret and something that's clear from my posts on American subjects.Good. It's a huge privilege. Why are you afraid to admit you are born and raised American ? I am thinking you'd have already just said if you came to the US as a child.
So the Jewish organization I referenced is misusing the term pogrom?And some people now use Holocaust in a similar context or misuse other words. When you use words you should know what their primary meanings are...had you said genocide in X area circa Y period it would have been far clearer than saying pogrom lol...It's like using royal forces instead of imperial forces even though they are similar but there's a clear distinction... you're probably thinking different parts of the world when hearing those terms...
What part of my stance is naive?My issue is not that you can't give your opinions, it is only that they are incredibly naive. Expecting gentleman's rules with a bunch of outlaws doesn't work. The whole concept of genocide is incredibly broad and regularly misused. People love to conflate words to give their arguments extra power or effect. Everything is genocide. Everything is racism. Everything is fascism.
One operates on the rules that the other side sets. Some countries due to their sheer might like the US can still largely stay above the fray but it's a luxury that's not afforded to all or even most. Any country that fights for its survival should take the gloves off. I am not calling for terrorism or cold blooded murder of civilians by any means but there should be a certain level of reciprocity. If we accept Russia saying they want Ukrainians to freeze to death then the same should be acceptable in turn. If a country repeatedly chants death to X then they shouldn't be getting soft gloved treatment. You expect Israel to keep accepting terrorism and calls for it's annihilation yet you also expect Israel to also constantly have to accept horrible deals and take it easy on the terrorists. You don't even expect that from any other middle eastern government. You keep using the crutch of Israel being a western democracy so that Israel constantly has to fight with one or both arms tied behind its back. Either you expect that of every regional member or not at all.
I pointed out you're an American born guy who never faced threats of annihilation or even serious hardships. To you everything is academic so you can sit and say how things should be.
You started bringing up your family's past to give you a bit more authority in being able to pass moral judgements ('my family experienced genocide decades ago so I have the moral authority to say what is moral and what is not' is what I got from it) which is hilariously misguided. That's what I am poking fun at. You didn't live through genocide or whatever other hardships you feigned. I literally worked with guys from Myanmar who escaped certain lifetime prison or death from their government for their political activities. Had they made some type of argument from their experiences I could least understand it.
I guess it doesn't get you social media brownie points to denounce this
Heres the full article.
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Hamas reappears on Gaza’s streets, and two of three militias that fought it go quiet
For now, the terror group's reappearance is relatively limited, but reports are mounting of it pursuing those who have resisted it. And many Gazans fear a return of terror rulewww.timesofisrael.com
From the article
Masked men — some in uniform but most in civilian clothes — have been seen out and about on Gaza’s streets in recent days, some handing out sweets, others simply standing guard.
Footage to this effect, published by Hamas-linked media less than 24 hours after the ceasefire took effect on Friday, has been accompanied by announcements from Hamas’s police and interior ministry claiming that security forces had redeployed across the Strip.
Over the weekend, Gaza networks also circulated footage of an armed, masked man shooting a resident in the leg — a practice Hamas employed throughout the war against suspected collaborators with Israel or those accused of stealing humanitarian aid.
Not everyone is convinced. Hussam al-Astal, who leads a militia that fought Hamas in Khan Younis in recent months and receives support from Israel under the wider framework of Yasser Abu Shabab’s organization, told The Times of Israel: “If Hamas were truly present, if they had real power, they wouldn’t be out in civilian clothes and masks.
“They’re afraid. Five or ten people show up in one spot, film it, and pretend they’re there. Why? Because they’re finished, and they know it,” he claimed.
And when you show him where he is wrong he tries to change the debate completely by arguing a different point but pretending like it was the original one all along.It’s hilarious seeing you trying to pretend to be objective and open to alternative narratives. You’re full of shit. Gaslight king.
If you are gonna play grammar police make sure "correction" is correct or you just look dumb and uneducated as well as a pedant. Apologies doesn't fit there.These two statements in the English language are not identical, which is your inane argument. Are starving Palestinians Hamas?
90% of UN aid trucks in Gaza were looted by starving Palestinians, ‘armed actors’ before reaching destinations: officials
I think you mean apologies or apologize, but any who, quote where I've apologized for Hamas. You keep mistaking observations and historical facts with my morals.
You mean the agencies that the IDF kept on attacking and killing?
Let's zoom out here: Are members of Hamas doing security around aid distribution sites valid targets for the IDF? If your answer is yes, then how would Hamas be able to protect these aid sites? If no, then why did Israel repeatedly target Hamas members around aid sites?
Afraid to admit I'm American? It's not a secret and something that's clear from my posts on American subjects.
So the Jewish organization I referenced is misusing the term pogrom?
And while I shouldn't be surprised from someone who thought the Cambodian genocide occurred in the 90s, the 1998 pogrom and genocides I referred to are separate episodes. Congratulations on failing basic history yet again.
What part of my stance is naive?
Remember, Israel has already tried the gloves off approach, and it birthed Hamas and utterly failed.
Again, Israel has not fought for its survival in about half a century. It's a regional hegemon armed with nuclear weapons, surrounded by countries that can't come close to matching it militarily, before we even get into the US' support of Israel.
And again, you're ducking. If experiencing hardship and slaughter firsthand is a requisite to comment on Israel, why is your opinion more valid than Dallaire's regarding Gaza? I've never made a claim that proximity to suffering grants moral authority, that's idiotic and your claim.
“If Hamas were truly present, if they had real power, they wouldn’t be out in civilian clothes and masks.
Similar to the pro hamas crowd posting on this forum!View attachment 1116438
I was guessing under 65, but perhaps the IQ has risen a few points over the last few decades because they're not as commonly fucking their cousins.