'GSP not the GOAT because he was boring and never finished anyone'.

[Guile]

Jones has a much better resume and actually finished fights

how is it a much better resume? GSP won 11 title fights in a row.

 

[Toxxus]

That doesn't make sense. Almost all finishes are knock outs, so you are saying that punching power is the most important factor for greatness. Why? If a fighter doesn't have much punching power, but has other strengths that he uses to win in dominant fashion, why does it make him any less great?

Not all fighters have more KOs than submissions so I don't think your "almost all finishes are knock outs" would hold up to any statistical review.

Finishing a fighters is more dominant than out-pointing them for 25 minutes.

For example - Do you feel like GSPs hotly contested decision win over Johny Hendricks was "more dominant" than if he had taken him down, worked his way to superior position and then submitted him? Is it more impressive than knocking him out cold?

Finishes are more dominant by their very nature. The goal of fighting is to defeat your opponent. Actually defeating your opponent is more impressive than not defeating them.

Hell, pre-Serra GSP was actually an exciting fighter to watch. He finished fights. After Serra he got so scared of losing that nearly every match became an exercise in top control and risk-avoidance.

Prior to Serra he had finished 5 of his 8 UFC matches. Not too shabby. After Serra he finishes 3 of 12 and one of those is a between round quit by BJ Penn.
So... GSP goes from a 62.5% finish rate to a 16.7% finish rate (25% if you count a between round quit - which I don't since it's neither a submission nor a T/KO).

And I bring all this up as a guy who was a GSP fan early on and hated the complete lack of killer instinct he displayed later on. Especially as he closed out his otherwise impressive career with 7 consecutive 25 minute safety-first matches.

 

[Toxxus]

how is it a much better resume? GSP won 11 title fights in a row.

Are you sure about that? That would require 10 consecutive title defenses which is a number that only Anderson Silva has pulled off so far.

 

[The guest]

So deep that Hughes is 1-2 and Fitch is 0-0-1 vs a chubby LW.

Needing to hate on GSP so badly that you're devaluing the LW GOAT to do it.

Wow, I think this is a new one. Even for Sherdog GSP haters.

 

[BenRichards]

These "elite" fighters lost to or fought to a draw with a chubby LW.

Kinda puts the WW division in a perspective many dont want to admit.

PS ... not saying they were bad or terrible but maybe not as great as people thought they were in comparison to other divisions.

Please articulate

 

[Guile]

Are you sure about that? That would require 10 consecutive title defenses which is a number that only Anderson Silva has pulled off so far.

Hughes and Serra fights were title fights.

 

[OmegaRugal]

Needing to hate on GSP so badly that you're devaluing the LW GOAT to do it.

Wow, I think this is a new one. Even for Sherdog GSP haters.

Penn is the LW GOAT but he is still a LW.

He never bulked up to be a real WW.

And yet he went 2-1-1 vs arguably the number 2 and 3 best WWs of all time.

He also gave GSP a beating that first first.

All this while at a massive size disadvantage.

It was very clear that the WW was only bigger and stronger than Penn ... they weren't actually better p4p skill for skill.

Nothing I am saying is false.

This does put a question mark to just how good the WW division actually was.

 

[OmegaRugal]

Please articulate

see my last post.

 

[bzrkr]

Yeah and he greased too

 

[Toxxus]

Hughes and Serra fights were title fights.

I guess if you count interim title fights as actual title fights. So 11 title fight wins and ... 9 defenses.

 

[Skirm]

He's the GOAT if being natty is one of the conditions

 

[BenRichards]

see my last post.

Seen and thanks. I don't think anyone can take away what Penn has done in the ufc but how do you feel about his chances against koscheck? Sheilds? Condit? Hendricks? Gsp fought a murders row imo. Is he the goat? My vote will probably stay with Fedor. Goat ww? Absolutely

 

[Toxxus]

Needing to hate on GSP so badly that you're devaluing the LW GOAT to do it.

Wow, I think this is a new one. Even for Sherdog GSP haters.

Sir, I have seen people take epic dumps in these GOAT threads on anyone that isn't their candidate of choice. It's pretty appalling.

 

[conorgoat]

 

[Hardkore]

He's one of the greats indeed
But I still have Jones and Anderson ahead of him

Fedor, AS, JJ

 

[ThunderStruck]

Jones has a much better resume and actually finished fights

He didn't finish fights when facing guys of his size.

 

[ThunderStruck]

So deep that Hughes is 1-2 and Fitch is 0-0-1 vs a chubby LW.

Retard of the day?

 

[PAPERCLIP30]

If he was dominating them with such ease why couldn't he get finishes?

Are you trying to say he wasn't dominating them with ease?

Are you really trying to say that?

 

[KhabibTheBeagle]

Which is exactly why when guys fighting the best can maintain high finish rates - it's extra impressive. The kind of thing that separates the very good from the greatest.

But how many guys are doing that? MM is, but his competition isn't on the level of other divisions.

 

[Toxxus]

But how many guys are doing that? MM is, but his competition isn't on the level of other divisions.

Werdum managed to sustain a career 80% finish rate and he was a champ right up until a minute ago. Stipe's finish rate is over 66% currently - we'll see how that goes as he faces only contenders.

Many champs have sustained a good finish rate.