'GSP not the GOAT because he was boring and never finished anyone'.

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Sjb1888 said:
Judo and Wrestling are not mma.

MMA is a fight, plain and simple, and a KO is the ultimate means of victory, choking someone unconcious is a close 2nd.
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Please, quote where I said that judo and wrestling are MMA.... You are inventing something that I didn't say. The basic trick of someone who can't argue. I said that judo are part of MMA as much as any other disciplines.

You said: "Coz it's a fight, ko'ing an opponent is the clearest definition of winning a fight.fighting"

So are you saying that judo and wrestling are not fighting? Because that's what your quote means.
 
leolozon said:
I completely disagree with your definition of a fight. MMA is about all form of fighting and not all form of fighting are about knocking out people. Is knocking out people the clearest definition of winning in wrestling? Did you watch judo during the Olympics? Almost no fighters are able to get a submission. Does it mean that these fighters are not great?
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1st, wrestling is NOT fighting, but simply a cog in the wheel of what a fight can be. But make no mistake, you can fight without wrestling or Judo, but it is not a fight until you add the striking. I'd venture to say that you've never been in a real fight before if you think wrestling and judo, on their own, is considered fighting. Why do you think there are stand ups and restarts off the cage when the STRIKING stalls?
 
leolozon said:
That's an incredibly stupid criteria. Do you also think that Tim Duncan was worst than other power forwards because he was boring? Or do you argue that entertainment only matters in fighting?
Does Silva winning boringly against Maia means that he was any less great?
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1. What the fuck is a Tim Duncan?

2.Yes, it does, you're starting to grasp it.
 
leolozon said:
Please, quote where I said that judo and wrestling are MMA.... You are inventing something that I didn't say. The basic trick of someone who can't argue. I said that judo are part of MMA as much as any other disciplines.

You said: "Coz it's a fight, ko'ing an opponent is the clearest definition of winning a fight.fighting"

So are you saying that judo and wrestling are not fighting? Because that's what your quote means.
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No it doesn't, you need to relax, your wound too tight and talking shite.

Being a boring fighter is 100% a legitimate part of a judging criteria, it's not the main one, but it's very valid.
 
Toxxus said:
Not all fighters have more KOs than submissions so I don't think your "almost all finishes are knock outs" would hold up to any statistical review.

Finishing a fighters is more dominant than out-pointing them for 25 minutes.

For example - Do you feel like GSPs hotly contested decision win over Johny Hendricks was "more dominant" than if he had taken him down, worked his way to superior position and then submitted him? Is it more impressive than knocking him out cold?

Finishes are more dominant by their very nature. The goal of fighting is to defeat your opponent. Actually defeating your opponent is more impressive than not defeating them.
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I looked at the stats and there aremore KO's than submissions. "Far more" is wrong though. At WW in 2015, it's 31 KO's for 17 submissions. I'm pretty sure that submissions are harder to get when you step up in competition though. I would like to find the number of submissions in championship bout. I'm pretty sure there are not that many.

You bring the Hendricks fight when it was clearly a close fight. Did I say that all decision fights are the same? Of course I didn't. So why would you bring that up as an argument?

What I argue is that being dominant is important, even though far less than winning, but finishing is NOT ALWAYS the most dominant way of winning. Would you argue that Silva beat Sonnen (1st) in a more dominant way than GSP beat Koscheck (2nd)? That wouldn't make any sense to me.

But are you arguing that GSP wasn't dominant?
I don't think that all fighters have the same tools and not all tools you use to dominate end up in finishes. To say that GSP wasn't dominant with the tools he used would be asinine to me.
 
Sjb1888 said:
No it doesn't, you need to relax, your wound too tight and talking shite.

Being a boring fighter is 100% a legitimate part of a judging criteria, it's not the main one, but it's very valid.
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That has nothing to do with what you quoted. So... once again... can't argue.

And what does "No it doesn't" even means in the context of what I wrote.

"judo and wrestling are part of MMA as much as any other discipline" - No, it doesn't.

What?

"Are you saying that judo and wrestling are not fighting" - No , it doesn't

What?
 
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Maori said:
the finishing rate in ww title fights since gsp retired sits at 33%.

Gsp's percentage for finishs in title fights is 38% including him being finshed by matt serra.

Robbie lawler currently sits at 25% in title fights, not sure if you come up with your own opinions or just follow the sheep
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Don't do that to the man, come on, you're going to force Redhawks to actually try and formulate a logical response for once. Or he'll just ignore your post and act like it never happened!
 
KhabibTheBeagle said:
Personally, finishing rates don't really matter when it comes to discussing fighters' achievements. When you're fighting the best, it's no easy feat to finish them.
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Silva and Jones would disagree
 
leolozon said:
That has nothing to do with what you quoted. So... once again... can't argue.

And what does "No it doesn't" even means in the context of what I wrote.

"judo and wrestling are part of MMA as much as any other discipline" - No, it doesn't.

What?

"Are you saying that judo and wrestling are not fighting" - No , it doesn't

What?
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You said "Because that's what your quote means."

I said "no it doesn't."

Makes sense right?
 
GSP reminds me of how everyone felt about "The Law" Lindland.....Yes, he was on a great streak and was 18-3 in 2006 and could hang with the best of the day BUT, he was a boring fighter....GSP at least attempted to hurt you.....Lindland would control the sh*t out of you and avoid getting hit.
 
leolozon said:
I looked at the stats and there aremore KO's than submissions. "Far more" is wrong though. At WW in 2015, it's 31 KO's for 17 submissions. I'm pretty sure that submissions are harder to get when you step up in competition though. I would like to find the number of submissions in championship bout. I'm pretty sure there are not that many.

You bring the Hendricks fight when it was clearly a close fight. Did I say that all decision fights are the same? Of course I didn't. So why would you bring that up as an argument?

What I argue is that being dominant is important, even though far less than winning, but finishing is NOT ALWAYS the most dominant way of winning. Would you argue that Silva beat Sonnen (1st) in a more dominant way than GSP beat Koscheck (2nd)? That wouldn't make any sense to me.

But are you arguing that GSP wasn't dominant?
I don't think that all fighters have the same tools and not all tools you use to dominate end up in finishes. To say that GSP wasn't dominant with the tools he used would be asinine to me.
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My argument is that every win that GSP dominated by riding for 25 minutes would have been even more dominant with a finish.
 
KhabibTheBeagle said:
Personally, finishing rates don't really matter when it comes to discussing fighters' achievements. When you're fighting the best, it's no easy feat to finish them.
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"fighting the best" Dan Hardy.
 
Goat is subjective. If someone doesn't think GSP is goat, that's their opinion.

I think GSP is one of the goats, but he's not THE goat IMO.
 
ReasonableMMAFan said:
....but completely dominated elite level fighters with absolute ease and made them look like amateurs in the process.

GSP bless.
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Young GSP was great to watch and laid some sickening beatdowns on people.

Older GSP was a bit boring, but incredibly dominant and effective.


Overall, he is as great as anyone else to ever wear MMA gloves. Anyone who doubts this is a fool.
 
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