'GSP not the GOAT because he was boring and never finished anyone'.

[12ga.]

How can a 170 lbs MMA fighter be goat when a top 20 HW would wreck/cripple him inside one round?

P4P maybe. Good fighter at his weight class. Words have meaning and greatest is an exclusionary term. Means none is better.

Realistically there are probably 100s of thousands of fighters better than GSP.

Anyway correct answer was Fedor and Cain or Stepie today.

 

[jumasterflex]

The WW division that GSP fought was full of one dimensional fighters or blown up LWs. Something GSP fans don't want to admit.

Yeah in a few years people will be saying that about stephen thompson damian maia robby lawlor donald ceronne and jonny hendricks fans will always say past champs never fought anyone good to hype up the current champ

 

[jumasterflex]

....but completely dominated elite level fighters with absolute ease and made them look like amateurs in the process.

GSP bless.

haha you dude ...you
Got me all riled up with the thread title then open it up to find out i been spoofed . Oh and ill add in there that he avenged his only 2 losses its a good thing he never fought matt brown though because matts seemed to be his only kryptonite

 

[kungfuron]

Yeah and he greased too

So did Andy.

 

[kungfuron]

Werdum managed to sustain a career 80% finish rate and he was a champ right up until a minute ago. Stipe's finish rate is over 66% currently - we'll see how that goes as he faces only contenders.

Many champs have sustained a good finish rate.

Terrible examples, one lost his first title defense and the other just won it. Let them defend it 6 or 7 times in a row and then see how their finish rates look. You also chose the HW division where everyone has knockout power. The HWs also have crap cardio for the most part so one of fighters usually gas and the finish is pretty easy.

 

[tenniswhiz]

Personally, finishing rates don't really matter when it comes to discussing fighters' achievements. When you're fighting the best, it's no easy feat to finish them.

I know man; it's not like the "best" fighters like Hardy, Kos, or Alves were ever finished by anyone else either.

GTFO
Of course finishes matter.
That's how the UFC began. As a fight to the finish.

 

[KhabibTheBeagle]

Werdum managed to sustain a career 80% finish rate and he was a champ right up until a minute ago. Stipe's finish rate is over 66% currently - we'll see how that goes as he faces only contenders.

Many champs have sustained a good finish rate.

Heavyweight is a bit of a cop-out, considering they're all so large, a gust of wind is liable to KO them.

Outside of Anderson and HW Champs (who rarely ever defend their title more than once), finishing rates decline, even among the greats. Just a result of the style of fighter and level of competition.

 

[KhabibTheBeagle]

I know man; it's not like the "best" fighters like Hardy, Kos, or Alves were ever finished by anyone else either.

GTFO
Of course finishes matter.
That's how the UFC began. As a fight to the finish.

GSP became a much safer fighter not long after Serra stopped him. He still dominated those guys, but the finish rate comes down to the style of the fighter. Doesn't mean a fighter is any less great. Cruz is the Bantamweight GOAT, and he rarely finishes fights.

 

[Sjb1888]

What's your point? I thought we were talking about GOAT fighter not goat entertainer. Am I the one in the wrong thread or are you?

I don't think anyone will ever argue that GSP is a GOAT entertainer, so I think you must be in the wrong thread. And you are arguing for nothing, because everyone agrees that GSP is not the most entertaining fighter of all-time.

I think it's pretty clear that I'm arguing that being entertaining is a part of my criteria for judging a fighter.

And GSP's lack of entertainment value stops him from being the goat in my opinion.

 

[Sjb1888]

I completely disagree with your definition of a fight. MMA is about all form of fighting and not all form of fighting are about knocking out people. Is knocking out people the clearest definition of winning in wrestling? Did you watch judo during the Olympics? Almost no fighters are able to get a submission. Does it mean that these fighters are not great?

Judo and Wrestling are not mma.

MMA is a fight, plain and simple, and a KO is the ultimate means of victory, choking someone unconcious is a close 2nd.

 

[Redhawks100]

When your best argument is that he lost one or two rounds to a guy that eyepoked him, who he then continued to beat, you're really desperate.

wasn't condit 50-45? Or was it 49-46?

That's domination.

Also, you're a blind hater. It's been obvious for years. You've been exposed multiple times for ducking sig bets because you were salty that GSP won. Get over it.

You claimed he was completely dominant when he wasn't.

He nearly got finished and the fact that you fail to acknowledge that is indicative of you being a crazed fanboy

 

[OmegaRugal]

Seen and thanks. I don't think anyone can take away what Penn has done in the ufc but how do you feel about his chances against koscheck? Sheilds? Condit? Hendricks? Gsp fought a murders row imo. Is he the goat? My vote will probably stay with Fedor. Goat ww? Absolutely

Goat WW for sure.

Penn I think could have beaten some more WWs if he had more lean muscle size amd cardio.

But anyone who grapples should tell you ... if you grapple enough with someone that has 20 or more lean muscle mass over you ... you are going to gas and gas hard.

Not that Penn had great cardio at LW but at WW it was always going to be far worst due to him coming in out of shape and grappling far bigger amd stronger opponents.

 

[OmegaRugal]

Retard of the day?

Yes you are if you cant understand factual win lose draw records. I feel sorry for you.

 

[OrigFan255]

Personally, finishing rates don't really matter when it comes to discussing fighters' achievements. When you're fighting the best, it's no easy feat to finish them.

It should be when you are the reigning champ and every fight is 5 rounds, with Georgie having dominant position rounds 2-5.

 

[Maori]

It would be disappointing if the sport's GOAT was someone so wooden and unimaginative. He's work ethic was inspiring, but not how he fought.

I get his ability to find his opponents weakness deserves respect. But I would hope a GOAT would find it inside himself to fight his opponents at their own strengths

Kos vs gsp1 bro?

 

[tramendous]

....but completely dominated elite level fighters with absolute ease and made them look like amateurs in the process.

GSP bless.

consistently finishing fights is a lot more dominant than winning decisions.

thus the people that do finish fights and are up there with him in terms of record will always be seen in a higher light.

 

[bjpenngoat]

he made hendricks, Condit and Shields look like amatuers? I didnt catch those fights I guess.

 

[Maori]

Completely dominated? Is that why Shields stole rounds? Why he was nearly finished by Condit? Why he was gifted a decision against Hendricks?

He's literally the ultimate point fighter. No risks. He's the safest champion in MMA history. Overrated competition that he couldn't come close to finishing.

the finishing rate in ww title fights since gsp retired sits at 33%.

Gsp's percentage for finishs in title fights is 38% including him being finshed by matt serra.

Robbie lawler currently sits at 25% in title fights, not sure if you come up with your own opinions or just follow the sheep

 

[leolozon]

I think it's pretty clear that I'm arguing that being entertaining is a part of my criteria for judging a fighter.

And GSP's lack of entertainment value stops him from being the goat in my opinion.

That's an incredibly stupid criteria. Do you also think that Tim Duncan was worst than other power forwards because he was boring? Or do you argue that entertainment only matters in fighting?
Does Silva winning boringly against Maia means that he was any less great?

You are clearly confusing two things. Your enjoyment of a fight has nothing to do with the greatness of the fighter. It could be an important criteria to decide who is your favorite fighter, but that's a completely other matter.

The fact that you think we should judge greatness on something as subjective as entertainment is mind-boggling.

 

[chinarice]

These "elite" fighters lost to or fought to a draw with a chubby LW.

Kinda puts the WW division in a perspective many dont want to admit.

PS ... not saying they were bad or terrible but maybe not as great as people thought they were in comparison to other divisions.

Fitch absolutely beat BJ but the judges gave BJ a gift draw.

He undoubtedly is ahead of cheaters like Jones and Silva now, though. Dudes probably cheated during their entire reigns and got away with it.

Cheaty Cheatertons.