'GSP not the GOAT because he was boring and never finished anyone'.

[MMA Maine-iac]

Fedor vs Rogers was a brawl. Maybe not his most impressive performance since Rogers held his own in round 1 and historically speaking he isn't the most highly regarded fighter (even though he had recently KOed Arlovkski at the time) , but that fight was far from boring.

Perhaps we have different interpretations of a "clunker"

No, Fedor vs Rogers was not boring. I meant clunker in the sense that people thought Fedor should've murdered Rogers within a round, much the same as they thought GSP should've finished Hardy inside a round.

 

[chinarice]

Fitch got schooled the entire first round vs BJ Penn who just came from losing badly to Frankie in the rematch.

A chubby out of shape guy completely outgrappled Fitch.

Then in the second ... BJ Penn was again schooling Fitch and nearly subbed him. But finally BJ Penn ran out of gas grappling with the stronger bigger figther and Fitch won the last minute plus of that round. Still that round EASILY goes to Penn.

Then what does Fitch do against a completely gassed and tired Penn ... he lays on him and goes for the safe but weak offense.

Penn won that fight 2-1. Fitch is lucky they gave him a 10-8 so they get a draw.

And this was the 2nd best WW in the world for years ... and the best he could do is pray BJ Penn gasses and then just lay on top of him with his size and weight.

The WW division was not as GREAT as people made it out to be.

Uh huh, I can honestly do what you did with every weight class. Shields was always better than Fitch. UFC shills made you believe otherwise.

Frankie, the former LW champ lost to lower weight class fighters like Aldo, so I guess LW wasn't all that good.

DC was an undefeated HW, can't beat a LHW in Jones.... HW = bad

Dillashaw lost to a guy with 1 fight in 3 years. Wow, bad BW, bad.

MW division? Former title contenders to Silva's throne, Cote, Nate and Maia can't even get to a titleshot in the WW division.... MW was obviously very overrated as well.

These games are fun. Lets play again sometime.

 

[leolozon]

My argument is that every win that GSP dominated by riding for 25 minutes would have been even more dominant with a finish.

Do you think that dominating means proving without a doubt that you are better than the other guy? If not how do you see dominating?

Do you think that most people right now think that Woodley is without a doubt better than Lawler?
As many as those who thought that GSP was without a doubt better than Koscheck after their 2nd fight?

Isn't it perfectly logical to say that GSP dominated Koscheck worst than Woodley dominated Lawler?

Do you think that Matt Serra proved that he was better than GSP in their 1st fight with his fast KO?
Do you think that Bisping proved that he was without a doubt better than Rockhold?

Guys get caught all the time by a punch without being dominated. "Lucky punches" exist. Your opponent only has to do 1 mistake and he can get KOed. To win 50-45 you have to just be constantly better than the other guy. So there is more luck involved in a Ko in the first 2 rounds, than in winning 50-45.

Domination has nothing to do with KOs. Lawler didn't dominate Rory McDonald. It was a close fight that was ended with a KO.

There are so many examples proving that domination doesn't equal finishing, that it's crazy to assume these two things are the same.

 

[benebox]

Put it this way if I went 5 rounds with the champ I would feel like I could boast about how the champ couldn't even finish me off.

 

[leolozon]

1st, wrestling is NOT fighting, but simply a cog in the wheel of what a fight can be. But make no mistake, you can fight without wrestling or Judo, but it is not a fight until you add the striking. I'd venture to say that you've never been in a real fight before if you think wrestling and judo, on their own, is considered fighting. Why do you think there are stand ups and restarts off the cage when the STRIKING stalls?

You can find a lot of definition that disagrees with you. But I guess you know better than a dictionary.

Fighting: to use physical force to try to defeat an enemy
Fighting: to put forth a determined effort
Fighting: to contend against in or as if in battle or physical combat
Fighting: to struggle to endure or surmount

But yes, if you take down another guy down and break his arm, you weren't fighting...
Next time I see two kids wrestling on the ground, pushing each other's head on the ground, I'll remember that they weren't fighting.

Fighting doesn't necessarily equal striking. This a fact. It can, but it's not a prerequisite. Why do you argue against facts?

 

[SKSer45]

....but completely dominated elite level fighters with absolute ease and made them look like amateurs in the process.

GSP bless.

WW Goat Yes. P4P Goat? Not even close. Actually, have to take risk, go for the finish, and move up in weight class like Andy, BJ, Randy, etc....He could've easily moved up weight class and murdered fools at MW but he played it safe and got out after he escaped with his life against Hendricks.

 

[Toxxus]

Do you think that dominating means proving without a doubt that you are better than the other guy? If not how do you see dominating?

Do you think that most people right now think that Woodley is without a doubt better than Lawler?
As many as those who thought that GSP was without a doubt better than Koscheck after their 2nd fight?

Isn't it perfectly logical to say that GSP dominated Koscheck worst than Woodley dominated Lawler?

Do you think that Matt Serra proved that he was better than GSP in their 1st fight with his fast KO?
Do you think that Bisping proved that he was without a doubt better than Rockhold?

Guys get caught all the time by a punch without being dominated. "Lucky punches" exist. Your opponent only has to do 1 mistake and he can get KOed. To win 50-45 you have to just be constantly better than the other guy. So there is more luck involved in a Ko in the first 2 rounds, than in winning 50-45.

Domination has nothing to do with KOs. Lawler didn't dominate Rory McDonald. It was a close fight that was ended with a KO.

There are so many examples proving that domination doesn't equal finishing, that it's crazy to assume these two things are the same.

Sure, lucky punches exist as do their grappling equivalents where a split second defensive lapse costs you the entire fight.

However, Lawler finishing McDonald was an epic ending to an epic bloodbath of a fight. That fight going to decision would have been a judging nightmare. This way we got a satisfying conclusion to one of the best octagon wars of all time and there was no doubt who "won" the fight. Finishes are conclusive.

Besides, I'm not saying GSP wasn't great, quite the opposite. He was better than what he gave us towards the end of his career because the Serra fight fucked with his mind too much. He felt the fear of losing more intensely after that fight and fought more cautiously. Cautious to the point of tedium at times.

 

[Pure Dust]

Name a fighter who hasn't had a clunker. All the GOATS have had off fights - Fedor with Rogers, Anderson with Leites, etc. I don't know why people base someone's legacy off of one fight.

He had a lot of fights like that. And Fedor knocked Rogers head into the front row during the second round. Do you even Fedor?

 

[evensteven]

Jones has a much better resume and actually finished fights

And also has a questionable drug test hanging over his head. Negates your victories if you can be proved to be a cheater

 

[GtehMVP]

It would be disappointing if the sport's GOAT was someone so wooden and unimaginative. He's work ethic was inspiring, but not how he fought.

I get his ability to find his opponents weakness deserves respect. But I would hope a GOAT would find it inside himself to fight his opponents at their own strengths

Why should any intelligent fighter fight at an opponents strengths? Sun Tzu would roll in his grave if your comment came from anyone with influence. A intelligent person always attacks an opponent where they have the advantage, otherwise it's button mashing nonsense.

I will agree that GSP fights became a snoozefest to watch!

 

[evensteven]

GSP has 1 "finish" in his title reign, which was Penn quitting in between rounds. Jones choked Rampage and Machida out and finished Sonnen. Try again, brah.

Comparing Jones at the beginning of his career (who may also have been on the juice) to the end of GSPs career does what? GSP got Penn to pack it in on the seat, finished Hughes twice. We can all pick small points to make our viewpoint sound good.

When Jones is 33 and goes through to MCL surgeries lets talk about his performance

 

[Repsac]

A lot of his best opponents went on to get finished brutally by other fighters. Fitch even got choked out by a can. His opponents weren't more elite level than so many others.

 

[ThunderStruck]

A lot of his best opponents went on to get finished brutally by other fighters. Fitch even got choked out by a can. His opponents weren't more elite level than so many others.

Take any fighters after losing to one of the goat, they almost all go on a bad streak. Revisionist history at its finest. MMA is like 90% confidence in your ability and GSP crushed these guys' confidence. Fitch, Kos, Alves... Never been the same after their crushing loss to GSP. Granite chin Fitch suffered 3 massive knock down in the fight. Kos almost lost an eye and has been tentative on the feet since. Alves was crying in the locker room after the fight. They all got broken. Don't be surprised if their career went downhill after that.

Fitch got choked by a can, but yet he has a win over Okami in 2015. I remember Okami being praised as a world beater by AS fanbois before his second fight against Silva. If he gets beat by such a bad WW fighter as Fitch then how impressive is huge MW Silva's defense against Okami?

With mmath and revision of history, you can easily turn every great fighter's career to crap. You can do the same for Fedor, Silva, Jones, anyone! So cut the crap you little bitch.