Social Gender ideology is dying, common sense prevailing

[Koro_11]

Your post didn't work.

Neither did yours.

 

[MMA IAN]

Itt maga bros try to disprove science with nothing but the feels lol

"A woman is anyone who feels like a woman"

I can't keep up, do we reorganise society based on fee-fees or not?

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Almost

In this context it's just an abbreviated form of transgender.

Transgender means that someone's gender does not match their biological sex.

Therefore, a transgender woman is a person whose gender is female but their biological sex is male.

Like congresswoman McBride, and millions of other people.

First of all we didn't just invent the word transgeder willy nilly. All latin prefixes still have a standard meaning. And we don't have any additional prefix for woman.

So transgender is a man that feels like a woman and tries to transform to one.

 

[Ares Black]

Describe the difference between a woman and a man and then the difference between a woman and "trans-woman"

If I wanted to be super accurate it would require a whole lot of writing, so I'll simplify it as much as possible.


A woman is anyone who sincerely identifies as a woman. A man is anyone who sincerely identifies as a man.

There can't logically be a difference between a woman and a trans woman, because one is a subset of the other.

What you are really asking for is the distinction between a cisgender woman and a transgender woman, which is relatively straightforward.

A cis woman is someone who was born female and identifies as a woman. A trans woman is someone who was born male and identifies as a woman.

I hope that clears it up.

 

[Ares Black]

First of all we didn't just invent the word transgeder willy nilly. All latin prefixes still have a standard meaning. And we don't have any additional prefix for woman.

So transgender is a man that feels like a woman and tries to transform to one.

Lol so confident. And so wrong.

 

[Hog-train]

2) The next thing is kids and surgery. That is basically a nonissue given it is only few per year out of tens of millions. Even if that isn't right, there are so many worse problems and so many more kids are killed other ways, it's not worth this debate.

If only a few kids are sexually molested does that make it ok and not a big deal? WTF difference does it make how rare it is.

It's still wrong.

3) As far as puberty blockers and hormones, A study by going back and looking through insurance has found that between like 2017 and 2022 there were a total of about 1000 kids on puberty blockers and about 2000 kids that were actually on hormones. That's with 300,000 trans kids in the United States so that's a very small proportion of even trans kids. The puberty blockers just put puberty on pause they don't actually change anything permanently; it is a to give them time to make the decision.

1. I dispute your numbers.

This article says there were at least 4.7K.

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/

"Over the last five years, there were at least 4,780 adolescents who started on puberty blockers and had a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis."

2. Puberty blockers "only puts things on pause" is bullshit because 98% of kids put on puberty blockers end up taking cross sex hormones.

https://www.npr.org/2022/10/26/1131398960/gender-affirming-care-trans-puberty-suppression-teens

And these articles are from Reuters and NPR - which are rated as high credibility and minimal or somewhat left leaning bias.

4) So if you look at a fraction of a percentage point of kids, it is highly conceivable that they have such extreme cases of gender dysphoria that something extreme would be needed so the situation won't lead to serious psychological/developmental damage, where mental health would be at high risk for an extended time and suicide actually would be a worry (and basically every other mental health problem); you are talking kids that are wildly out of the norm. If the number has jumped drastically over the last few years of kids getting this since that study, I might agree that it is being done too often and perhaps there wasn't thorough clinical evaluation going on, which would be ethically troubling. I am not convinced that is the case though.

That's exactly what the UK found though and that is why their leading gender clinic, the Tavistock clinic, had to close. They were just rubber stamping kids to get surgery and hormones way too quickly without proper evaluation.

Actual whistleblowers that worked at the clinic (who were trans themselves) exposed all the things that were going on that led to the clinic's closure.

NHS to close Tavistock child gender identity clinic

It follows criticism of England's only children's gender identity clinic in an independent review.

www.bbc.com

5) What happened in the UK was that there was a massive swell in kids getting it, and some of the studies specifically on the safety and efficacy of puberty blockers just have not given us enough evidence to continue at that rate (It didn't show they were unsafe, there just wasn't enough good testing). But the UK did NOT stop it because like I'm trying to tell you, there are severe cases; what they did was make it only available in one clinic so they could watch really closely to make sure there was proper evaluation when they did it.

The UK DID ban it for kids. WTF are you talking about.

Why Western Europe is rolling back access to puberty blockers

Several countries have restricted the use of puberty blockers, citing insufficient evidence on their benefits for gender-questioning youth and potential long-term effects.

www.euronews.com

Ban on puberty blockers to be made indefinite on experts’ advice

Existing emergency measures banning the sale and supply of puberty-suppressing hormones will be made indefinite, following official advice from medical experts.

www.gov.uk

Puberty blockers have been in use for a long time by the way- they also sometimes given them to kids to avoid early puberty because that can be psychologically damaging. Did you know that? Gender affirming care has been around for a long time having nothing to do with trans. Were you mad about it then? If you are worried about the safety, it was just as unsafe to give it for that reason.

I know all this already. Puberty blockers have been given to kids with precocious puberty. That's not the same thing as transing kids.

When you treat a kid with precocious puberty, they're only on it for a little bit and then NORMAL puberty is allowed to resume at the appropriate time.

When you do it for gender dysphoria, the kids have their puberty paused and then in 98% of cases, they are given cross sex hormones. So they NEVER are allowed to go through their natural puberty.

Those are two completely different things. Stop trying to dishonestly conflate the two.

The truth is, regardless of where any kind of true morality sits on this issue, you and others have been suckered by the right into blowing this WAY out of proportion just given the sheer numbers involved.

Typical bullshit argument all you trans advocates say. Why do you care!!?? You've been manipulated to care about this TINY issue!

Uhmm YOU CARE. You're writing paragraphs to defend it at every turn.

And all the people advocating for it in media also care.

If it's such a tiny non-issue: Dave Chappele wouldn't have been protested by Netflix employees over mere jokes. They wouldn't have tried to boycott JK Rowling over her views. We wouldn't be seeing trans representation all over movies, media, shows, in the news, etc. The Democratic Senators wouldn't have all voted no on the transwomen in female sports bill.

Don't give me this bullshit that only some far right conservatives care. YOU care and so do a lot of leftists, people in left wing media, people in the entertainment industry, etc.

Did you know there are 2 million suicide attempts by kids every year in the US, and several thousand succeed? How much time have you spent typing about the cruelty of allowing kid's mental health to get this bad in forums? How upset have you gotten about in comparison to all of this fire and brimstone over trans people? There are far greater injustices going on that have far greater consequences, and I am talking specifically to kids in the US. It was a good way to get people inflamed about something that really puts people into disproportionate outrage, which I will admit was a genius con move by the Reps.

The ACLU's lawyer, Chase Strangio, had to recently admit in front of the Supreme Court that the transgender suicide claim is a myth.

"MR. STRANGIO: What I think that is referring to is there is no evidence in some—in the studies that this treatment reduces completed suicide. And the reason for that is completed suicide, thankfully and admittedly, is rare and we’re talking about a very small population of individuals with studies that don’t necessarily have completed suicides within them."

This was for the recent U.S. v. Skrmetti Supreme Court case that challenges Tennessee’s ban on pediatric sex “change” procedures.

ACLU Attorney Confesses: Transgender-Suicide Claim is a Myth

Arguing before the Supreme Court, Chase Strangio concedes that suicide is “thankfully and admittedly rare” among transgender-identifying people.

www.city-journal.org

What I think about it is that kids shouldn't get surgery under 18, and any permanent hormones therapy should be extremely rare and only in a situation where everything else has been tried, there has been ample clinical evaluation, and you are basically out of other options. I get that you think it's simpler than that- that it should never happen, but I would urge you to consider that it is more complicated than that.

So we're in agreement. Why are you arguing with me.

Because "transing" kids is not a real word. It can mean whatever you want it to mean and it certainly implies doing something nefarious to someone.

If you give a kid under 18 puberty blockers, cross sex hormones and/or do surgery, that is essentially transing a kid.

IDGAF if it's not a "real word." I'm just writing shorthand for transitioning a kid. You and I both know what it means when I say transing a kid.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

If I wanted to be super accurate it would require a whole lot of writing, so I'll simplify it as much as possible.


A woman is anyone who sincerely identifies as a woman. A man is anyone who sincerely identifies as a man.

There can't logically be a difference between a woman and a trans woman, because one is a subset of the other.

What you are really asking for is the distinction between a cisgender woman and a transgender woman, which is relatively straightforward.

A cis woman is someone who was born female and identifies as a woman. A trans woman is someone who was born male and identifies as a woman.

I hope that clears it up.

Let me help you out:

 

[Ares Black]

Let me help you out:

It's always so funny when transphobes try to argue that a kindergarten-level understanding of gender is the most accurate.

It's such a a ridiculous self-own every time.

Congratulations, you have the same level of understanding as a small child in the 1980s.

 

[oldshadow]

If I wanted to be super accurate it would require a whole lot of writing, so I'll simplify it as much as possible.


A woman is anyone who sincerely identifies as a woman. A man is anyone who sincerely identifies as a man.

There can't logically be a difference between a woman and a trans woman, because one is a subset of the other.

What you are really asking for is the distinction between a cisgender woman and a transgender woman, which is relatively straightforward.

A cis woman is someone who was born female and identifies as a woman. A trans woman is someone who was born male and identifies as a woman.

I hope that clears it up.

That's pure delusional bullshit. You are trying to say there is no difference between a biological females and a male that wants to pretend they are a female.

You can pretend all you want but that doesn't make it a biological fact.

The same goes for female to male.

You can pretend all you want but you don't get to be treated as you pretend in many situations.

 

[Ares Black]

That's pure delusional bullshit. You are trying to say there is no difference between a biological females and a male that wants to pretend they are a female.

I said nothing of the sort. In fact I explicitly explained the difference.

You can pretend all you want but that doesn't make it a biological fact.

It's a fact, whether you understand it or not. Trans people exist.

The same goes for female to male.

You can pretend all you want but you don't get to be treated as you pretend in many situations.

In your opinion, which you are entitled to.

 

[Ares Black]

Dunking on transphobes has quickly become one of my favourite hobbies on Sherdog.


It's right behind shitposting in the PBP threads.

 

[oldshadow]

I said nothing of the sort. In fact I explicitly explained the difference.

It's a fact, whether you understand it or not. Trans people exist.

In your opinion, which you are entitled to.

I understand biology which is what counts in the majority of the situations this affects the general public. We do not have to and will not give into the pretend in certain situations. A trans woman is not a woman and the majority will not and do not have to treat them as such in many situations.

Biology over pretend.

 

[Ares Black]

I understand biology

No, you really don't

which is what counts in the majority of the situations this affects the general public. We do not have to and will not give into the pretend in certain situations. A trans woman is not a woman and the majority will not and do not have to treat them as such in many situations.

In your opinion, which you are entitled to.

 

[oldshadow]

No, you really don't

In your opinion, which you are entitled to.

So explain how a trans woman is biologically the same as a biological female born that way.

Feelings do not cause a biological reaction.

 

[Koro_11]

Dunking on transphobes has quickly become one of my favourite hobbies on Sherdog.


It's right behind shitposting in the PBP threads.

LOL @ dunking, this is what you look like trying to dunk in this thread.

 

[AmonTobin]

You mean the reality that Sara McBride is a guy with a punishment? Cause that's reality.

And you can mind your own business when people that know men have a penis call Sara Mr or Congressman.

You see how simple that is?

Transgender people have never been and will never be a problem to me. They can be exactly who they want to be. The people that concern me are the ones who don’t want to coexist with anyone different than themselves and would rather oppress a group of people than understand and respect them as fellow human beings of equal value.

Obsessing over what someone has in their pants, what they do in their bedroom, or what they prefix themselves by, as OP is championing, is simply pathetic.

 

[terrapin]

If I wanted to be super accurate it would require a whole lot of writing, so I'll simplify it as much as possible.


A woman is anyone who sincerely identifies as a woman. A man is anyone who sincerely identifies as a man.

There can't logically be a difference between a woman and a trans woman, because one is a subset of the other.

What you are really asking for is the distinction between a cisgender woman and a transgender woman, which is relatively straightforward.

A cis woman is someone who was born female and identifies as a woman. A trans woman is someone who was born male and identifies as a woman.

I hope that clears it up.

I don't mind people having their fictions but a man is someone who is born biologically male and a woman is someone who is born biologically female.


You can add any descriptive language you want to it outside of that and I don't care but a man is a male and a woman is a female.

 

[Ares Black]

I don't mind people having their fictions but a man is someone who is born biologically male and a woman is someone who is born biologically female.


You can add any descriptive language you want to it outside of that and I don't care but a man is a male and a woman is a female.

Ah, so you don't actually believe that trans people exist and you don't actually understand the concept of gender. Ok.

 

[terrapin]

Ah, so you don't actually believe that trans people exist and you don't actually understand the concept of gender. Ok.

They absolutely exist. This is one of the talking points I think is disingenuous from the left. I would never deny that they exist but a man that is born man is a man not a woman no matter how they identify...


You should not insist that people that admit trans people exist use the language you have chosen when you didn't refer to those people to make those decisions

This is the linguistic theft and game that the trans activists have played on people and it's a form of coercion. Disagreeing on what language you use to describe a phenomenon does not mean a person is denying that that phenomenon exists.

 

[Mr Holmes]

Let me help you out: