Social Gender ideology is dying, common sense prevailing

[kflo]

The trans extremists are the ones establishing the laws and standards they want society to follow.

So what difference does it make to say most trans people are not like that?

What laws?

 

[Ares Black]

Trans men and trans women DO work perfectly well. I am perfectly happy with that language.
The post I replied to from you didn't make that distinction. You called them men and women.

I consider trans women to be a subset of women. As far as I'm concerned, the vast majority of women are not trans, but some of them are.

A trans woman has some things in common with a cis woman and (she) has some things in common with a cis man.

I just don't think genital configuration and chromosomes are the most important defining characteristics of a human being.

It's ok if you disagree.

 

[Hog-train]

What laws?

Laws such as schools that allow hiding their kids trans identity and name changes from parents. Or taking away custody from parents that don't affirm their child's trans identity. Or laws that allow kids to be transitioned with drugs.

There was a recent court case brought by some transwoman that sued a lesbian dating app meant exclusively for cis-gender woman only. That transwoman successfully won and forced the dating app to include them.

There was another court case in Washington that forced a female only, nudity required Korean Spa to accept transwomen with penises. The business already allowed transwomen that had surgery - they just didn't want penises in a space where females and young girls are nude.

Washington Korean spa ordered to drop ‘biological women only’ policy after trans complaint

A Korean spa in Washington state that requires nudity in some areas was forced to wipe its “biological women only” policy by a Seattle court earlier this week. What started it: Olympus Spa, which has branches in Lynnwood and Tacoma, was hit with a discrimination complaint by transgender woman...

www.yahoo.com

Laws that allow stuff like that are extreme. They're basically forcing a private business to accept penises in female nude spaces.

 

[Ares Black]

You should quit while you’re not quite ahead

Honestly, finding some common ground with you has been one of the highlights of this thread IMO.

i know I am often a huge pain in the ass who often says things that sound crazy, but I really do mean well, and I think for the most part that you do too.

 

[Deleted member 577981]

I consider trans women to be a subset of women. As far as I'm concerned, the vast majority of women are not trans, but some of them are.

A trans woman has some things in common with a cis woman and (she) has some things in common with a cis man.

I just don't think genital configuration and chromosomes are the most important defining characteristics of a human being.

It's ok if you disagree.

I do disagree because when I get into the distinctions that trans activists they make they rely on terrible, horrible, deeply limiting stereotypes about the range of behavior and interests that men and women can have.


I don't think that we need new names for those things but we need to do is increase the range that all men have for behavior and interest and the range that all women have for behavior and interest.

And since that range is nearly infinite, it is foolish and ridiculous and cumbersome to define each and every degree along that range. It sounds comical because it is comical and it doesn't matter how many distinctions you make. Somebody will just want another anyway....

So man for males works great and woman for females works great too. And then if you've got a person who's biologically male but identifies in some kind of feminine way, I'm okay with them being called trans.

Will you take the posts back now where you said I'm trying to deny that they exist?

People have lost careers and jobs based on that kind of slander and dishonesty. I don't think you should engage in it.

 

[UberHere]

Honestly, finding some common ground with you has been one of the highlights of this thread IMO.

i know I am often a huge pain in the ass who often says things that sound crazy, but I really do mean well, and I think for the most part that you do too.

You’re alright in my book. Well just never fully agree on a lot of things, but that’s all good.

 

[b-hop]

Laws such as schools that allow hiding their kids trans identity and name changes from parents. Or taking away custody from parents that don't affirm their child's trans identity. Or laws that allow kids to be transitioned with drugs.

There was a recent court case brought by some transwoman that sued a lesbian dating app meant exclusively for cis-gender woman only. That transwoman successfully won and forced the dating app to include them.

There was another court case in Washington that forced a female only, nudity required Korean Spa to accept transwomen with penises. The business already allowed transwomen that had surgery - they just didn't want penises in a space where females and young girls are nude.

Washington Korean spa ordered to drop ‘biological women only’ policy after trans complaint

A Korean spa in Washington state that requires nudity in some areas was forced to wipe its “biological women only” policy by a Seattle court earlier this week. What started it: Olympus Spa, which has branches in Lynnwood and Tacoma, was hit with a discrimination complaint by transgender woman...

www.yahoo.com

Laws that allow stuff like that are extreme. They're basically forcing a private business to accept penises in female nude spaces.

That's why this rethoric is very dangerous. It goes by your forcefully have to recognize their "way of thinking" to passing laws about disagreeing with their views is discrimination so you're already there engaging in criminal behavior for disagreements.

And than they can pass legislation like those laws. American people paid attention, that's why GOATnald is president.

 

[Ares Black]

Laws such as schools that allow hiding their kids trans identity and name changes from parents.

That's a sticky subject for sure. It must be just awful for everyone involved.

Or taking away custody from parents that don't affirm their child's trans identity.

That seems extreme, but why would parents do that to their kid?

Or laws that allow kids to be transitioned with drugs.

Again, a sticky subject, but what if it was the best way to help a suffering child?

There was a recent court case brought by some transwoman that sued a lesbian dating app meant exclusively for cis-gender woman only. That transwoman successfully won and forced the dating app to include them.

That does seem odd, but no one is forcing anyone to actually date them. I certainly hope that if they have male genitalia that they disclose that to their potential partner

There was another court case in Washington that forced a female only, nudity required Korean Spa to accept transwomen with penises. The business already allowed transwomen that had surgery - they just didn't want penises in a space where females and young girls are nude.

Washington Korean spa ordered to drop ‘biological women only’ policy after trans complaint

A Korean spa in Washington state that requires nudity in some areas was forced to wipe its “biological women only” policy by a Seattle court earlier this week. What started it: Olympus Spa, which has branches in Lynnwood and Tacoma, was hit with a discrimination complaint by transgender woman...

www.yahoo.com

Yeah, that seems inappropriate even to a wokie soy boy libtard like myself. I wish trans activists would think more about the optics and impact of what they are doing.

Laws that allow stuff like that are extreme. They're basically forcing a private business to accept penises in female nude spaces.

That is one of the few restrictions that I think is pretty reasonable.

Even if I believe that trans women are women in most of the ways that matter in society, once nudity becomes a factor it pretty dramatically changes what matters.

Basically, if a trans woman is fully clothed and not competing in sports then I have no issue with just calling them a woman.

Once they get naked or start competing with cis women their biological makeup and genital configuration becomes a matter of importance.

 

[Ares Black]

I do disagree because when I get into the distinctions that trans activists they make they rely on terrible, horrible, deeply limiting stereotypes about the range of behavior and interests that men and women can have.

I would argue that the rhetoric and stereotypes from.anti-trans activists is much more harmful overall. Not too many people are literally murdered because of pro-trans activism.

I don't think that we need new names for those things but we need to do is increase the range that all men have for behavior and interest and the range that all women have for behavior and interest.

And since that range is nearly infinite, it is foolish and ridiculous and cumbersome to define each and every degree along that range. People are trying to but it sounds comical because it is comical and it doesn't matter how many distinctions you make. Somebody will just want another anyway....

So man for males works great.and woman for females works great too. And then if you've got a person who's biologically male but identifies in some kind of feminine way, I'm okay with them being called trans.

Will you take the posts back now where you said I'm trying to deny that they exist?

Ok. We are really just arguing semantics at this point anyway.

People have lost careers and jobs based on that kind of slander and dishonesty. I don't think you should engage in it.

I'm not trying to attack anyone.


Ok maybe not anyone. But I'm definitely not trying to attack you.

 

[Deleted member 577981]

The trans extremists are the ones establishing the laws and standards they want society to follow.

So what difference does it make to say most trans people are not like that?

trans activists are often by far the most extreme and do not necessarily even represent trans peoples opinions or even confer with trans people to come to them. also many trans activists are not trans themselves even... they are just people looking for a cause to fight.

and they will and do push for things that are unacceptable and rely on slander and lying to discredit criticisms. KIathleen Stock is my personal favorite critic of the trans movement and she has been treated very poorly and dishonesty by trans activists.

#nodebate is a real thing and for good reason. support for a lot of the crazy trans ideology will fade in the light of honest debate.

 

[Koro_11]

trans activists are often by far the most extreme and do not necessarily even represent trans peoples opinions or even confer with trans people to come to them. also many trans activists are not trans themselves even... they are just people looking for a cause to fight.

and they will and do push for things that are unacceptable and rely on slander and lying to discredit criticisms. KIathleen Stock is my personal favorite critic of the trans movement and she has been treated very poorly and dishonesty by trans activists.

#nodebate is a real thing and for good reason. support for a lot of the crazy trans ideology will fade in the light of honest debate.

Also let's not forget the gays and lesbians, who have absolutely nothing to do with trans, but they somehow get shoehorned into it as if it's some unified "community" even though most of them want nothing to do with it.

 

[Deleted member 577981]

I would argue that the rhetoric and stereotypes from.anti-trans activists is much more harmful overall. Not too many people are literally murdered because of pro-trans activism.

Ok. We are really just arguing semantics at this point anyway.

I'm not trying to attack anyone.


Ok maybe not anyone. But I'm definitely not trying to attack you.

its not semantics. its reducing human beings to terrible outdated stereotypes and then defining them based on those. that's not the answer. that is an I'll thought out approach if there ever was one. the answer is to have deeper discussions about what men and women can be and the range of behaviors and traits allowable for them and not try to redefine who they are because of that. we don't need more labels.. we need more range within the existing labels.

I think mysticism and spirituality has A LOT to say about this range as anyone on a deep path MUST abandon stereotypes as the full range of human experience is opened to them and many people find them confining and limiting and harmful to their lives anyway.

@Ares Black edit below​

instead of more labels the spiritual approach is to define the self LESS and just allow experience to be experience unencumbered by more and more mind and labels. I think more and more labels will only hurt people in the long run.

but you did just say that I am trying to deny that they exist. I am not and you should admit that and take it back. I think you should go and edit your post saying so. its not true and you have not admitted it openly yet either.

this is the kind of slander the left in known for man. its a well deserved reputation and a well used tactic. it confuses the entire discussion and issue. it is the MAIN tactic of trans activists... the first line of defense.

 

[Deleted member 577981]

Also let's not forget the gays and lesbians, who have absolutely nothing to do with trans, but they somehow get shoehorned into it as if it's some unified "community" even though most of them want nothing to do with it.

I don't know a single gay person that wants trans associated with them....

 

[PainIsLIfe]

It's always so funny when transphobes try to argue that a kindergarten-level understanding of gender is the most accurate.

It's such a a ridiculous self-own every time.

Congratulations, you have the same level of understanding as a small child in the 1980s.

So now I'm a transphobe? What exactly is my fear?

The sad truth is that a small child in the 80s understood biology better than some adults today.

 

[Koro_11]

I don't know a single gay person that wants trans associated with them....

Yeah, you can’t blame them, just when they were finally starting to get accepted in society this comes along and puts the whole rainbow in a negative light.

 

[Ares Black]

its not semantics.

Yes, it is. We are literally arguing over the definition of words.

its reducing human beings to terrible outdated stereotypes and then defining them based on those.

That's absolutely not what it is.

that's not the answer. that is an I'll thought out approach if there ever was one. the answer is to have deeper discussions about what men and women can be

It is not up to me who or what other people can be.

and the range of behaviors and traits allowable for them and not try to redefine who they are because of that. we don't need more labels.. we need more range within the existing labels.
I think mysticism and spirituality has A LOT to say about this range as anyone on a deep path MUST abandon stereotypes as the full range of human experience is opened to them and many people find them confining and limiting and harmful to their lives anyway.


but you did just say that I am trying to deny that they exist. I am not and you should admit that and take it back. I think you should go and edit your post saying so. its not true and you have not admitted it openly yet either.

I literally just did, just not enthusiastically enough apparently.

this is the kind of slander the left in known for man. its a well deserved reputation and a well used tactic. it confuses the entire discussion and issue. it is the MAIN tactic of trans activists... the first line of defense.

Whatever you say dude.

You definitely lose some credibility when you refer to the left like it's a monolith.

For now we will have to agree to disagree because I'm getting really tired and I will shortly be getting cranky and I'm not trying to catch a yellow card.

Good night, and I wish nothing but the best.

I formally retract my accusation of intentional trans erasure.

 

[Ares Black]

So now I'm a transphobe? What exactly is my fear?

Gay panic

The sad truth is that a small child in the 80s understood biology better than some adults today.

No, he really didn't.

 

[Ares Black]

I don't know a single gay person that wants trans associated with them....

Ok, then you don't know many gay people.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

A woman is anyone who sincerely identifies as a woman. A man is anyone who sincerely identifies as a man.

@oldshadow:
You are trying to say there is no difference between a biological females and a male that wants to pretend they are a female.

I said nothing of the sort. In fact I explicitly explained the difference.

 

[Ares Black]

@oldshadow:
You are trying to say there is no difference between a biological females and a male that wants to pretend they are a female.

Reading comprehension really isn't your thing, is it?