Tech Gaming Hardware discussion (& Hardware Sales) thread

[Cygnus A]

Are games actually taking advantage of 12 cores?

 

[Swing]

449 though fuck. I’ll prob just get the i7-10700k.

Honestly for most people the differences are probably just academic, but I like the idea of PCIE gen 4 support. I mean, why not? I will wait for gaming benchmarks though, and I might actually wait until next year anyway. I don't think my 9700k is going to fall behind during the first year of the new console gen despite the fact that it only has 8 threads.

 

[Madmick]

@Madmick have you paid attention to the new Sennheiser PC38x's?

Haven't looked at them.

@Madmick what are your thoughts on the Ryzen 5000 series?

449 though fuck. I’ll prob just get the i7-10700k.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1614...en-3-on-nov-5th-19-ipc-claims-best-gaming-cpu

The prices spark a brand shock because we've been accustomed to seeing AMD have to beg for so long, but that's no longer the case. Now they're the market leader, or at least a true peer. Wait to see full reviews, but I wouldn't write off AMD. Their Ryzen 3000 series temps are so much better than Intel's it's embarrassing. That's what is catching my eye here. TDP. The reason is that IPC will determine the winner of this race. AMD didn't exaggerate their IPC boasts last gen, and previous rumors reported starting many months ago ranged from 17%-20% IPC gains for this gen. 19% is on the money.

So the question is what these turbos mean, but that begs us to recall that the 3950X and 3900X couldn't truly deliver on their turbos-- not quite. Meanwhile, the 3800X couldn't meaningfully deliver the +100MHz over the 3700X across enough cores for it to really matter. So none of these ended up being any better than the 3700X in games which had little trouble hitting & sustaining its own turbos. The 3600 and 3700X had 65W TDP. It was the 3800X, 3900X, and 3950X that had 105W TDP. For this reason, I'm looking at the 5600X, and thinking 4.6GHz is the new practical ceiling they've obtained. That would be a +200MHz effective gain over Zen 2.

Remember that AMD seized the IPC advantage against Intel with Ryzen 3000 (vs. 9th Gen), and the 10th Gen Intels barely improved on their predecessors-- only by a few percent. The FPS link below is the most illuminating to IPC performance in games. The rest focus on synthetics. Almost all of workloads show an IPC advantage of 7%-10% for Ryzen 3000 (Zen 2) vs. Intel 9th Gen (Coffee Lake Refresh) in most benchmark suites. Yet, as we know, Intel flipped this with a 6%-10% real-world advantage in most game benchmark suites thanks to its frequency advantage.

You have to remember that IPC is itself an abstract concept that varies with the workload being tested at a given normalized frequency. In fact, in most synthetics, Ryzen 3rd gen does have the IPC advantage. It's IPC in gaming where Intel still wins, by a tiny margin, for the majority (i.e. <50%) of games. Cinebench has long been the gold standard for IPC potential, and Ryzen delivered on AMD's hype chart:

Ryzen 3rd Gen IPC Analyses

• https://www.techspot.com/article/1876-4ghz-ryzen-3rd-gen-vs-core-i9/
• https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/amd-ryzen-7-3700x-ryzen-9-3900x-review,9.html
• https://www.thefpsreview.com/2019/07/07/amd-ryzen-9-3900x-cpu-review/9/
• https://hothardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-9-3900x-vs-core-i9-9900k-ipc-shootout
• https://www.anandtech.com/show/14605/the-and-ryzen-3700x-3900x-review-raising-the-bar/6
  
• https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ryzen-9-3900x-7-3700x-review,6214-3.html

I can only speculate, but if AMD isn't lying about that IPC gain, this means they may have soared to as much as a 25%-30% advantage, now. If that's the case, I don't think Intel's real 5.1GHz turbo (it doesn't actually hold 5.3GHz) will hold up against AMD's 4.6GHzish turbo. That's just too massive a raw advantage for AMD.

It may take some time to iron out drivers, AMD is notoriously bad with that, but just based on the superficial math of it, I think AMD is about to take the crown. The 5800X or 5900X will become the king of gaming CPUs.

 

[TestosterOWN]

Gave up and got this combo earlier and 10 percent off. Ima try to snag a cheap 1080ti and shoot for a 3070 when it comes out.

 

[loyalyolayal]

Yeah I'll likely upgrade my 3600x to a 5950 or something.

I always thought more cores is for productivity purposes like rendering, photoshop, video editing, etc. And single core performance is for gaming(generally speaking- @Madmick can correct me on this one), which intel leads until yesterday.

 

[Madmick]

I always thought more cores is for productivity purposes like rendering, photoshop, video editing, etc. And single core performance is for gaming(generally speaking- @Madmick can correct me on this one), which intel leads until yesterday.

That's the general truth. Although currently the 8-cores are supreme, and there's still an incredibly small number of games optimized beyond 4 cores, but that partly has to do with the fact Intel and AMD nerf the frequency on their 4-core and 6-core GPUs to entice gamers to purchase the bigger chips.

That's why I pointed to turbos in my previous post. In theory, the R9-3950X (4.7GHz) should be a significantly better gaming CPU than the 3700X (4.4GHz) or 3800X (4.5GHz) without even needing its additional cores. In reality, there's no meaningful difference, and I've seen many sheets over the years where the latter two were actually beating it because, first, the 3950X isn't able to deliver its promised turbo, and second, while it can deliver a 4.4GHz turbo to match the 3700X, presumably the octacore chips are better able to sustain higher peaks because having fewer cores means they must manage less heat.

I suppose you could call me cynical for expecting the same with Zen 3, but I am. I doubt the 5900X or 5950X meaningfully outperform the 5800X in games.

Same deal with the Intels, btw. They knew this, knew gamers would figure it out, and so they went out of their way to capitalize on their i9-9900K chips that achieved the best binning at the factory. Those are the ones they sold as the i9-9900KS. Those were supposed to retail for $525, but they were rarely available for less than $630. Meanwhile, the 9900K MSRP was $488. Though, with the 10th gen, you don't give anything up in terms of turbo or binning by moving up to the 10-core i9-10900K, and in particular the i9-10900KF.

 

[loyalyolayal]

My bad @Woldog, I was supposed to tag @Cygnus A.

 

[Wreckless]

Did you guys see the new Corsair 4000D Airflow that launched a few weeks ago? Looks like the new functional king in the sub-$100 space to me. There is also a variant without a window, a non-mesh variant, and apparently a more expensive iCUE variant. I'm only seeing a page for the Standard and Airflow right now.
https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categ...ered-Glass-Mid-Tower-ATX-Case/p/CC-9011200-WW
https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categ...ered-Glass-Mid-Tower-ATX-Case/p/CC-9011199-WW

Kitguru hands on:


Reviews:
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/corsair-4000x-4000d-airflow-review
https://www.kitguru.net/components/leo-waldock/corsair-4000d-airflow-review/
https://hexus.net/tech/reviews/chassis/145336-corsair-4000d-airflow/

• $79.99 MSRP ($109.99 for iCUE)
• Front Panel (topside) includes USB 3.2 Gen1 Type-C port
• Metal mesh front (with secondary filter behind); mesh screen filter on top (easily removable for cleaning); meshworked expansion slot covers
• Tinted Tempered Glass Panel
• Up to 7 total fans
  -- Supports thinner 360mm AIO in the front
  -- 240mm/280mm on top (requires low-profile memory with 280mm)
  -- Hydro X Build Guide manual indicates simultaneous 280mm + 240mm configuration for heavy duty CPU+GPU liquid cooling setups
  -- CPU Air Coolers up to 170mm tall
• Up to 9 expansion slots
• 2 x 3.5" (along bottom) and 2 x 2.5" (backside)
• PSU shroud with perforation on floor for breathing (includes protective removable filter)
• Dedicated Cabling Corridor; tons of cable eyes, hooks, and passthrough orifices
• Large convenient thumbscrews for the sides

Fuck me, this thing is sexy. For $80? The Fractal Meshify C just caught a Bugs Bunny metal backhand to the face. It better come back to earth with its pricing. No more of this $100-$110 shit I've been seeing for months.

Woah


I'm really glad you posted this. I've spent hours yesterday looking for a reasonably priced case with good airflow and although I did end up setting my eyes on 2 cases, neither of the designs really did it for me. And for some reason this one never popped.

I think we have a match. Thanks for sharing.

 

[jefferz]

 

[My Spot]

Woah


I'm really glad you posted this. I've spent hours yesterday looking for a reasonably priced case with good airflow and although I did end up setting my eyes on 2 cases, neither of the designs really did it for me. And for some reason this one never popped.

I think we have a match. Thanks for sharing.

As long as you get the one that doesn’t have a window and stupid RGB fans.

 

[My Spot]

4000 series already exists but only for mobile platforms. Similar to Nvidia skipping from 700 to 900 in 2014.

 

[Madmick]

Woah


I'm really glad you posted this. I've spent hours yesterday looking for a reasonably priced case with good airflow and although I did end up setting my eyes on 2 cases, neither of the designs really did it for me. And for some reason this one never popped.

I think we have a match. Thanks for sharing.

Yeah, I was going to do a deep dive on this newer one versus the already esteemed Corsair Carbide 275R Airflow which is $85 on Amazon atm:
https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categ...d-Glass-Mid-Tower-Gaming-Case/p/CC-9011181-WW

 

[Wreckless]

As long as you get the one that doesn’t have a window and stupid RGB fans.

Never liked RBG fans. I prefer a minimalistic look. Not a fan of glass panels either. But have to admit that the dark tinted glass panel on this one looks clean. You can see it better on video. It's not completely see through. So I guess it's not a big deal since there are no other options.

The problem I had trying to find a simplistic looking case is that a lot of them like the NXZT H510 have a fully covered front. And while they look great, it restricts the air flow. A lot of the ones that did have good ventilation in the front had weird looking front panels.

 

[Wreckless]

Yeah, I was going to do a deep dive on this newer one versus the already esteemed Corsair Carbide 275R Airflow which is $85 on Amazon atm:
https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categ...d-Glass-Mid-Tower-Gaming-Case/p/CC-9011181-WW

Lol when I mentionned having 2 picks in mind this was the final one. But there's just something about the front panel that doesn't feel right. It's not ugly but it's not that great either.

2nd pick was the nr600. Looks much better imo but after seeing how filmsy the front is and the fact that it doesn't have a real dust filter was a bummer.

Only negative I've seen about the 4000d airflow so far is the PSU space but it shouldn't be a problem for the one I have.

They should really start offering both non glass panels and glass panels. A lot of the nice cases seem to only have the glass panel option.

 

[My Spot]

Never liked RBG fans. I prefer a minimalistic look. Not a fan of glass panels either. But have to admit that the dark tinted glass panel on this one looks clean. You can see it better on video. It's not completely see through. So I guess it's not a big deal since there are no other options.

The problem I had trying to find a simplistic looking case is that a lot of them like the NXZT H510 have a fully covered front. And while they look great, it restricts the air flow. A lot of the ones that did have good ventilation in the front had weird looking front panels.

Yeah, I had a Corsair 200r and it had a covered front like that. I’ve had a Cooler Master n200 for awhile but it’s probably too small for what you’re looking for.

 

[Madmick]

4000 series already exists but only for mobile platforms. Similar to Nvidia skipping from 700 to 900 in 2014.

And desktop APUs. Neither is Zen 3.

 

[PEB]

 

[jefferz]

Lol when I mentionned having 2 picks in mind this was the final one. But there's just something about the front panel that doesn't feel right. It's not ugly but it's not that great either.

2nd pick was the nr600. Looks much better imo but after seeing how filmsy the front is and the fact that it doesn't have a real dust filter was a bummer.

Only negative I've seen about the 4000d airflow so far is the PSU space but it shouldn't be a problem for the one I have.

They should really start offering both non glass panels and glass panels. A lot of the nice cases seem to only have the glass panel option.

Dust filters cut down on air flow.

 

[MusterX]

Yea I just watched that. It appears AMD is headhunting now, looking for KO and liver shots.

 

[PEB]

Yea I just watched that. It appears AMD is headhunting now, looking for KO and liver shots.

Here the problem and it's a huge problem for Intel lack of 7nm process manufacturing. It turns out that Nvidia now considering moving from Samsung to TSMC. Intel and the US needs to step up its game. TSMC now a 1/2 trillion dollar company has Apple, AMD, Tesla, potentially Nvidia again, Qualcomm and tons more. The US needs to lead again in this space. It's a serious problem that the next administration needs to address.