Frank Mir "Cain Velasquez showed that Junior Dos Santos has no ground defense"

DrHouse said:
Like I said, it told us something about his ground game. I will reserve judgement on what exactly that was until the next time Junior is on the ground.
Click to expand...

It didn't tell me much except that he couldn't do shit after being hurt and Cain was on him like white on rice. Early on, Junior's takedown defense was decent, then he got clocked and was fighting on heart, instinct and toughness for the next twenty.
 
Shogun90 said:
wow, Mir is pathetic. looks like he already forgot the smashing he recieved from Dos Santos.
Click to expand...

Which has nothing to do with the lack of ground game by JDS. I believe we are going to see JDS lose alot more very soon.
 
Mir is articulate but he's not as good of a fight analyst as he pretends to be.

Exhibit A:

He insisted in interview after interview that there was no way that Overeem would be able to stop Brock's takedowns and keep the fight standing. We all know what happened in reality.

Mir is overemphasizing Cain's unwillingness to box with Dos Santos. Cain mixed things up a great deal and that is what ended up being Junior's downfall. Cain applied relentless pressure and mixed up his striking and takedowns so much that Junior couldn't predict what Cain was going to attack him with which left him vulnerable when he began to slow down. It was actually being knocked down with a punch which diminished Junior's ability to defend himself. He was never able to fully recover at that point.

As for JDS's ground game, well it was good enough to help him survive a full 5 Round fight with Velasquez constantly getting him down and pounding on him. It's an exaggeration to say he has no ground defense. Clearly he's not a submission wizard and if you rock him and gas him he's going to have a hard time blocking ground strikes and getting back to his feet.

Overall I was more impressed with Cain Velasquez than I was disappointed in Junior Dos Santos.
 
By Sherdog logic, no one is allowed to criticize a fighter's ability in certain areas of a fight if that fighter is better than them... retards.
 
Substance Abuse said:
It didn't tell me much except that he couldn't do shit after being hurt and Cain was on him like white on rice. Early on, Junior's takedown defense was decent, then he got clocked and was fighting on heart, instinct and toughness for the next twenty.
Click to expand...

Cain is not a knockout artist he wins by attrition. That is really not testimony to how tough JDS is but rather the technique and game plan of Cain.
 
SUPERCHARGED said:
Cain is not a knockout artist he wins by attrition. That is really not testimony to how tough JDS is but rather the technique and game plan of Cain.
Click to expand...

This is hyperbole and bordering on idiocy. The amount of shots Junior ate would have finished another man. It has to many, considering how many people Cain has finished with strikes. Think about it.
 
DrHouse said:
I'm a JDS fan, but how do you really dispute that the Cain fight did expose something of Junior's ground game? You can sit there and laugh at Mir, saying he couldn't find that out or saying that JDS showed that Mir has no stand up defense, but it doesn't take away from what the Cain fight showed us.

Cain will do that to a lot of guys, so I'm not ready to call Junior a fish out of water on the ground. He is supposed to be a black belt in BJJ from the Nogueira brothers, we definitely didn't see a black belt on the ground in that fight. I wouldn't say he has no ground defense, but I will side with Mir on the fact that the Cain fight did show us something about Junior's ground game.
Click to expand...


I don't like JDS, but All it showed was that JDS can stand up whenever he gets taken down. He didn't try anything else on the ground so how can you say what it did/didn't show in regards to his ground game other than he has the ability to get up repeatedly after being taken down by an All American wrestler?

If JDS had gotten up and KO'd Cain, people wouldn't say anything about his ground game having no defense, when Chuck would get taken down and pop right back up, I don't recall people saying he got exposed for not having a ground game.
 
Mir made some good points, but Dos Santos does have ground defense and Cain did box with him.
 
thechoice2 said:
I don't like JDS, but All it showed was that JDS can stand up whenever he gets taken down. He didn't try anything else on the ground so how can you say what it did/didn't show in regards to his ground game other than he has the ability to get up repeatedly after being taken down by an All American wrestler?

If JDS had gotten up and KO'd Cain, people wouldn't say anything about his ground game having no defense, when Chuck would get taken down and pop right back up, I don't recall people saying he got exposed for not having a ground game.
Click to expand...

Chuck never had a ground game.. Cro Cop never had a ground game.. JDS never had a ground game.. they were just really good at keeping the fight standing
 
SUPERCHARGED said:
Which has nothing to do with the lack of ground game by JDS. I believe we are going to see JDS lose alot more very soon.
Click to expand...

Who do you think Dos Santos would get beaten by?

MysticNinjaJay said:
Mir is articulate but he's not as good of a fight analyst as he pretends to be.

Exhibit A:

He insisted in interview after interview that there was no way that Overeem would be able to stop Brock's takedowns and keep the fight standing. We all know what happened in reality.

Mir is overemphasizing Cain's unwillingness to box with Dos Santos. Cain mixed things up a great deal and that is what ended up being Junior's downfall. Cain applied relentless pressure and mixed up his striking and takedowns so much that Junior couldn't predict what Cain was going to attack him with which left him vulnerable when he began to slow down. It was actually being knocked down with a punch which diminished Junior's ability to defend himself. He was never able to fully recover at that point.

As for JDS's ground game, well it was good enough to help him survive a full 5 Round fight with Velasquez constantly getting him down and pounding on him. It's an exaggeration to say he has no ground defense. Clearly he's not a submission wizard and if you rock him and gas him he's going to have a hard time blocking ground strikes and getting back to his feet.

Overall I was more impressed with Cain Velasquez than I was disappointed in Junior Dos Santos.
Click to expand...

Some good points made.
 
It was never a stretch to think that the best place for many people (especially someone like Mir) to beat JDS is on the ground.

The problem is getting and keeping JDS there, unless you're as well rounded as Cain.
 
Mir stop being a smug peanut head.
 
i think mir finally clued in to what i scream at the tv every time i see a guy give up after a failed takedown attempt

cain did what so many guys have failed to do in the past. keep pressing. refuse to stand

cain vs jds 2 and chael vs anderson (both times) and bisping were a good example of refusing to stand. the second chael tried to stand in the second anderson fight he got humiliated

in brocks losses to overeem and cain he gave up trying to take them down and got lit up. same thing in the carwin fight but he pulled it off

george sotigopolus vs pearson was another example of a guy who had success on the ground and was gettting smashed standing, refusing to shoot. george almost subbed him at the end of round one but didnt even shoot ti he got smashed minutes in to round 2

it happens over and over.n you see guys have trouble with the takedown and instead of being relentless they decide to stand with a guy they shouldnt be trading with. respect to cain
 
I dont know if that is the best case to see JDS ground game. His team encouraged him to stand up at all costs and he was pretty much out of the fight after round 1 till round 4 when he got his legs back.
 
So what did JDS show us about your stand-up game and TD's?
 
theheater said:
i think mir finally clued in to what i scream at the tv every time i see a guy give up after a failed takedown attempt

cain did what so many guys have failed to do in the past. keep pressing. refuse to stand

cain vs jds 2 and chael vs anderson (both times) and bisping were a good example of refusing to stand. the second chael tried to stand in the second anderson fight he got humiliated

in brocks losses to overeem and cain he gave up trying to take them down and got lit up. same thing in the carwin fight but he pulled it off

george sotigopolus vs pearson was another example of a guy who had success on the ground and was gettting smashed standing, refusing to shoot. george almost subbed him at the end of round one but didnt even shoot ti he got smashed minutes in to round 2

it happens over and over.n you see guys have trouble with the takedown and instead of being relentless they decide to stand with a guy they shouldnt be trading with. respect to cain
Click to expand...

I think this is something of an oversimplification. Everybody can't just relentlessly shoot for TD's, especially against guys as dangerous as Anderson or JDS.

Chael stood with Silva in the first fight many times and held his own. I think it's more about mixing it up than going for the same move over and over again in a predictable manner.
 
Articulate, intelligent and analytical liek when he said that the numbers on the side of the weights are proof that he is stronger than carwin and that would lead to his victory or that his improved conditioning and flat stomach are enough evidence to show he will beat brandon vera
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,237,053
Messages
55,463,752
Members
174,785
Latest member
JoyceOuthw

Share this page

Back
Top