For those who defend the Rozen/Reem call as a TKO, what do you consider a knockdown?

[TGArthur]

Does anyone have the gif of exactly when DM waves the fight? I want to see it.

 

[BEATDOWNS]

Stoppage was ok! Reem's trip to the shadow realm was a quick one but he still stopped by..imo

 

[TriangleMonkey]

To be fair, and I never seen the fight only Sherdog clips. It appears as Roz hit him so damn flush and clean, and the way Reem slammed the fence on the way down, Roz caught Dan on his way in out of side of vision and walked-off.

 

[Gamer2k4]

Does anyone have the gif of exactly when DM waves the fight? I want to see it.

It's zoomed in because it's not official, but you can mostly see it while this video is up:


Looking at the sequence now, I have to admit Dan does look like he's made his decision already once Overeem falls, and only waves it off later because he realizes Overeem thinks the fight is still going. Doesn't mean it's the right call, of course, but at least it's better than him stepping between them, thinking about it, seeing Overeem's lip, and then making the call.

 

[Taric]

This is the definition of a knockout victory. Reem goes limp and is unable to defend himself.

It's literally no different than this:

But with no follow up punches... the follow up punches aren't even necessary. The fight was already deemed a KO when Griffin was going limp towards the mat. It doesn't matter that Griffin woke up when his head hit the mat. He was knocked out.

 

[MarleyLynx]

There's zero to debate here, the stoppage was textbook.

A knockdown would consist of a fighter going down while still somewhat in control of his body. Overeem was stiff and just collapsed. Cut and dry stoppage there.

Stuff and collapses? He got dropped to his butt and got right back up. Did you think Conor stopped Diaz?

 

[MarleyLynx]

This is the definition of a knockout victory. Reem goes limp and is unable to defend himself.

It's literally no different than this:

But with no follow up punches... the follow up punches aren't even necessary. The fight was already deemed a KO when Griffin was going limp towards the mat. It doesn't matter that Griffin woke up when his head hit the mat. He was knocked out.

Those aren’t even the same kind of knockdown.

 

[Taric]

Those aren’t even the same kind of knockdown.

One goes fully limp backwards and one goes fully limp forwards. Do you people not even know what a knockout looks like lol

 

[MarleyLynx]

One goes fully limp backwards and one goes fully limp forwards. Do you people not even know what a knockout looks like lol

One guy got spun around and fell on his face. One guy was backing up and got knocked on his ass and immediately got up.
They're not the same thing...

 

[Taric]

One guy got spun around and fell on his face. One guy was backing up and got knocked on his ass and immediately got up.
They're not the same thing...

The guy on his face was getting back up too. He woke up when his head hit the mat, exactly like how Reem wakes back up when his head hits the cage.

This isn't boxing. When a fighter goes unconscious there's no 10 count. The fight is ruled a knockout immediately.

 

[MarleyLynx]

The guy on his face was getting back up too. He woke up when his head hit the mat, exactly like how Reem wakes back up when his head hits the cage.

This isn't boxing. When a fighter goes unconscious there's no 10 count. The fight is ruled a knockout immediately.

Reem never went out. He got knocked on his ass. If you're calling this a KO then Conor Ko'd Diaz as well. Simple as that

 

[Hardkore]

100% Flash KO and therefore a good stoppage. While people do get flash KO'd and still come back, Reem was fucking done. He was staggering like crazy, and he was done fighting before the big punch. He had his hands down by his sides and and couldn't even present a basic defense...he was done and got finished. Imagine how bad that lip could have gotten if he had taken a few more stiff shots while he was out cold?

Staggering around like crazy? A bit of hyperbole

 

[rjmbrd]

This denotes the end of any fight:

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

There's zero to debate here, the stoppage was textbook.

A knockdown would consist of a fighter going down while still somewhat in control of his body. Overeem was stiff and just collapsed. Cut and dry stoppage there.

There’s definitely not “zero” to debate, lol. It’s fine if you think it was a good stoppage, but almost every stoppage can be debated.

 

[Taric]

Reem never went out.

He clearly goes fully limp... He even goes limp in the exact same manor he did against Ngannou.

The only difference between the two knockouts is that Reem wakes back up when he hits the cage.

 

[Istryker]

"Here's the sequence in question" than proceeds to put a GIF where the important part of Reem stumbling around is cut.

Come on, not asking for journalistic deontology here, but a minimum of intellectual honesty would be appreciated

Some big words there at the end

 

[Final Say]

I've got to know, because knockdowns happen literally all the time in fights and the fight goes on. Here's the sequence in question:

Yes, Overeem was wobbly getting up. Yes, his lip was badly damaged. Yes, Rosie would have probably finished the fight if he had followed up.

But he didn't.

I'm not in the "if he dies, he dies" camp by any stretch of the imagination, but plenty of fighters have been wobbled by a strike and then clinched or grappled or otherwise gave themselves time to recover. That's a part of fighting, and again, we see it all the time. We saw it on this very card in prior fights.

So, let's put aside all the what-ifs and get down to the basics. Those of you who defend the stoppage, what do you consider a knockdown, and when should the fight be stopped or left to continue?

EDIT: One more question to round things out. You often hear in commentary (especially Rogan's) about a fighter getting "rocked." But the fight goes on. So again, how is that different? For those saying a TKO is legitimate because a fighter is wobbly or not all there, should all fights be stopped as soon as someone is rocked? If not, where do you draw that line?

I’m not taking a hard stance here but let me ask you a question: if I drop you and decide not to take top position and you’re asked to stand back up but can’t do it, should the ref stop it?

 

[90 50]

There was no reason to stop the fight, Reem wasn’t in any danger at the point it was stopped the other guy was walking away and Reem was up with what a couple seconds left?

If he hadn’t stopped it, 3 secs later bell rings and it goes to the judges.

Reem wins.

Reem was not ko’ed and was not getting hit anymore at that point. Very poor decision to stop the fight.

Someone check mergs wife’s bank account I’m sure it “grew” last night.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

This denotes the end of any fight:

Sure, if the ref sees it, calls in the doc, and the doc stops it, I think almost everyone would agree with the stoppage. That is not why this fight was stopped though. It was stopped ostensibly for a TKO, not for a cut. (For what it’s worth, Lawler’s cut against Rory did not result in a stoppage)

If we’re talking about cosmic justice, we ended up with the right result. JR did neurological and physical damage to Overeem within the 25-minute limit that was sufficient to end the fight. Had Overeem made it to the bell somehow and been awarded the decision victory that would have been VERY fortunate for him, and it would go down as one of the all time epic fails by JR. Nevetheless, there’s a decent argument that based on the way that the final ten seconds played out, Dan should have let the fight go for as long as Overeem was in no immediate danger.

 

[90 50]

Should Overeem have been allowed to continue to fight with the injury to his face? Well, there's your answer. The knockdown is redundant. That's a can of worms that doesn't even need to be opened.

No ref in their right mind would allow a fight to continue when one of the fighters has his face split open so bad you can see his teeth with his lips closed.

It doesn't matter if it happened in the opening seconds of the first round or fuss last 10 seconds of the last round. For anyone to not see this clear as day, they must have some sort of degenerative disease of the brain. Seriously....the stupidity of this place has reached dangerous levels.

And yes, the ref can make the call any time he wants on whether or not it's safe for a fighter to continue or if their unable to continue to fight due to the nature of their injury. So you can leave doctors out of this too.

The ref can call “time” in a situation like that, the doctor looks at it and makes the decision. At that time the ref can then inform the fighters to get back to swinging or it’s over.

The ref in an “injury “ situation doesn’t end the fight, just pause it for thebDr’s

So in that scenario it was STILL done INCORRECTLY