Multiplat Dragon Age: The Veilguard

[Ruprecht]

I said Triple A games. Of course they have less space to be hyperpolitical. For most of history big movies were not promoting obscure stuff like cosmotorianism, zoroastrianism, voluntary human extinction or anarcho-socialism within the US, A Triple A game is like a big ass blockbuster movie.

You can publish books about how Dennis Kucinich would fight aliens with socialism all day long because they are cheap to make.

You're just talking about the necessity for large budget, mainstream products to broaden their appeal as widely as possible to maximise profit. Hence the dumbed down, lowest common denominator nature of most blockbuster titles.
Versus the ability of smaller, independent fiction to appeal to niche audiences.
That's not the same as completely avoiding political messaging or content though. I'm not sure what you were playing in the '80s, '90s and 2000s, but even in the '80s there was no shortage of games with political messaging, mostly relating to the Cold War. More so as technology allowed for more complex games. William Gibson's Neuromancer from Interplay comes to mind (pity Timothy Leary never ended up making his version).
Your first post was that a game with 10 minutes of Ayn Rand's philosophy or promotion would be "mocked out of the universe", and yet the first game to come to mind that started exactly like that (despite ultimately being a critique) was in fact a "blockbuster" hit (Bioshock).
The same is true across all mediums of fiction, including film, where you'll see political messaging in "blockbusters" including the Matrix, Gattaca, District 9, Logan's Run, Planet of the Apes, Blade Runner, Idiocracy and Sleeper.
The success being dictated primarily by the quality of the fiction.

 

[Satur9]

Lore consistency is a thing in fantasy franchises.

People would riot if a Conan movie started with Conan coming out as bisexual to his father in a cringy fashion.

It is still a make-believe land, dude, and nothing like Conan. At all... Not sure where they said in their lore that non-binary doesn't exist there. COuld be somewhere, but I doubt it is.

I will never understand trying to make fictional universes fit into a strict rule-set, or what have you. It is fiction. It is about "what-ifs". It is supposed to bring you out of the real world we live in. It can be whatever the author or creators choose. As an avid Science Fiction reader, and not on the left, I would be in dire straights if I had to go through all the books with such a rigid view. It would suck all the fun out of dystopian novels everywhere, among many space operas too. I'll pass on that.

 

[Nizam al-Mulk]

You're just talking about the necessity for large budget, mainstream products to broaden their appeal as widely as possible. Hence the dumbed down, lowest common denominator nature of most blockbuster titles.
Versus the ability of smaller, independent fiction to appeal to niche audiences.
That's not the same as completely avoiding political messaging or content though. I'm not sure what you were playing in the '80s, '90s and 2000s, but even in the '80s there was no shortage of games with political messaging, mostly relating to the Cold War. More so as technology allowed for more complex games.
Your first post was that a game with 10 minutes of Ayn Rand's philosophy or promotion would be "mocked out of the universe", and yet the first game to come to mind that started exactly like that (despite ultimately being a critique) was in fact a "blockbuster" hit (Bioshock).
The same is true across all genre's of fiction, including film, where you'll see political messaging in "blockbusters" including the Matrix, Gattaca, District 9, Logan's Run, Planet of the Apes, Blade Runner, Idiocracy and Sleeper.
The success being dictated primarily by the quality of the fiction.

Just do consensus politics, self identified Nazis bad, not being a weakling and growing as a person good.

It was a critique, no podoo.

All of the movie mentioned are big broad consensus political movies when they came out.

 

[Fury]

You're just talking about the necessity for large budget, mainstream products to broaden their appeal as widely as possible to maximise profit. Hence the dumbed down, lowest common denominator nature of most blockbuster titles.
Versus the ability of smaller, independent fiction to appeal to niche audiences.
That's not the same as completely avoiding political messaging or content though. I'm not sure what you were playing in the '80s, '90s and 2000s, but even in the '80s there was no shortage of games with political messaging, mostly relating to the Cold War. More so as technology allowed for more complex games.
Your first post was that a game with 10 minutes of Ayn Rand's philosophy or promotion would be "mocked out of the universe", and yet the first game to come to mind that started exactly like that (despite ultimately being a critique) was in fact a "blockbuster" hit (Bioshock).
The same is true across all genre's of fiction, including film, where you'll see political messaging in "blockbusters" including the Matrix, Gattaca, District 9, Logan's Run, Planet of the Apes, Blade Runner, Idiocracy and Sleeper.
The success being dictated primarily by the quality of the fiction.

There's also that the people who loved DA:O in 2009 are no longer the target audience. The game has a bunch of flaws (I can say this being that I play it) but it's also just not targeted for that generation.

I'm 41 and a bit used to this by now.

I'd call the game a 7.5 out of 10 if you just want to play a fantasy 3rd person action RPG. That's considering the art style, some janky dialogue and so on. The dialogue is annoying more because it feels like there were good writers and bad writers. Some of it is very natural and some of it (not related to inclusivity) seems written by someone with a communication related disorder.

It goes down considerably if you are offended by one of the things listed in this thread even though I'm my experience, none of them come up for more than a minute or two in actual gameplay.

 

[Ruprecht]

Just do consensus politics, self identified Nazis bad, not being a weakling and growing as a person good.

It was a critique, no podoo.

All of the movie mentioned are big broad consensus political movies when they came out.

In 2007 bagging libertarianism was not remotely consensus politics. There were posters in the War Room talking about seasteading at the time.

 

[Fury]

Also, I wish I could murder animals and use their skin to make my armor.

I would look fantastic in Snoufleur

 

[Ruprecht]

There's also that the people who loved DA:O in 2009 are no longer the target audience. The game has a bunch of flaws (I can say this being that I play it) but it's also just not targeted for that generation.

I'm 41 and a bit used to this by now.

I'd call the game a 7.5 out of 10 if you just want to play a fantasy 3rd person action RPG. That's considering the art style, some janky dialogue and so on. The dialogue is annoying more because it feels like there were good writers and bad writers. Some of it is very natural and some of it (not related to inclusivity) seems written by someone with a communication related disorder.

It goes down considerably if you are offended by one of the things listed in this thread even though I'm my experience, none of them come up for more than a minute or two in actual gameplay.

Yeah, given the demographics of Sherdog I think most of us should be familiar with aging out of a franchise or setting we enjoyed as kids. For me it was essentially all Fantasy fiction, although there's still nostalgia appeal.
Good to hear that not all the writing is as poor as the examples that have been used in reviews to make the point.
Even compared to the DA:O though, the art style and writing seems to have been made specifically for a more YA audience.
I'm not completely giving up hope on seeing Mass Effect resurrected.

 

[Nizam al-Mulk]

In 2007 bagging libertarianism was not remotely consensus politics. There were posters in the War Room talking about seasteading at the time.

The friggin war room or this site is irrelevant when it comes to that. Ron Paul did not win nor did he get close.

 

[Ruprecht]

The friggin war room or this site is irrelevant when it comes to that. Ron Paul did not win nor did he get close.

It was also the rhetoric of Romney, and the Tea Party following that. Vulgar libertarianism was the majority of right-wing politics in the US for that period between neoconservatism and nationalist populism. You can't honestly say that in 2007 being critical of libertarianism was consensus US politics. Even if it's a lot less polarising than the current US culture war.
With Bioshock 2K were taking the left wing stance against the right-wing political direction of the time. As was a lot of other scifi from the decade for that matter, with titles like Jennifer Government, Surface Detail, District 9 and Elysium.

 

[Nizam al-Mulk]

It was also the rhetoric of Romney, and the Tea Party following that. Vulgar libertarianism was the majority of right-wing politics in the US for that period between neoconservatism and nationalist populism. You can't honestly say that in 2007 being critical of libertarianism was consensus US politics. Even if it's a lot less polarising than the current US culture war.
They were taking the left wing stance against the political direction of the time. As was a lot of other scifi from the decade for that matter, with titles like Jennifer Government, Surface Detail and Elysium.

Libertarianism was about as mainstream as buzekashi in the US.

Neocons ran things and Romney was their guy. There was not even vulgar libertarianism. I watched the Romney documentary like 2 weeks ago Nflix. You think people at Reason Magazine were thinking they were mainstream between 60 and 16?

 

[Fury]

Yeah, given the demographics of Sherdog I think most of us should be familiar with aging out of a franchise or setting we enjoyed as kids. For me it was essentially all Fantasy fiction, although there's still nostalgia appeal.
Good to hear that not all the writing is as poor as the examples that have been used in reviews to make the point.
Even compared to the DA:O though, the art style and writing seems to have been made specifically for a more YA audience.
I'm not completely giving up hope on seeing Mass Effect resurrected.

Andromeda had the best combat Bioware, of the action variety at least, has ever done.

Mass Effect was an important game to a lot of people, someone will be pissed no matter what they do.


Tighten up the writing from Andromeda, don't hide half the story in long side quests and bug fixes. For me, I loved the originally trilogy but it doesn't need to be very tied in. Just give me the universe and the ability to be a battering ram space witch.

They'll never please the people who want it to be what it is, just make it a good game.

 

[Nizam al-Mulk]

There's also that the people who loved DA:O in 2009 are no longer the target audience. The game has a bunch of flaws (I can say this being that I play it) but it's also just not targeted for that generation.

Males are more likely to obsess over video games so i guess we have to wait on how young males voted but everything i heard from Te Bulwark and NYTimes says young man voted Republican this time.

Did the target audience actually change? What makes you think that?

What are some bonafide franchises heavily featuring trans protagonists that are universally liked by a young fanbase?

 

[Fury]

Males are more likely to obsess over video games so i guess we have to wait on how young males voted but everything i heard from Te Bulwark and NYTimes says young man voted Republican this time.

Did the target audience actually change? What makes you think that?

What are some bonafide franchises heavily featuring trans protagonists that are universally liked by a young fanbase?

I think you got lost on your way to the war room.

I didn't say anything about politics or trans.

 

[Ruprecht]

Andromeda had the best combat Bioware, of the action variety at least, has ever done.

Mass Effect was an important game to a lot of people, someone will be pissed no matter what they do.


Tighten up the writing from Andromeda, don't hide half the story in long side quests and bug fixes. For me, I loved the originally trilogy but it doesn't need to be very tied in. Just give me the universe and the ability to be a battering ram space witch.

They'll never please the people who want it to be what it is, just make it a good game.

I'm definitely more interested in better quality writing and mechanics than I would be in just trying to remake the initial trilogy with UE5.
For all I care It could be wall to wall "rebellion of the purple haired, gender shifting, alien furries", if they can manage to make the writing above average, the art design and detail impressive and the gameplay mechanics top priority.

 

[Nizam al-Mulk]

I think you got lost on your way to the war room.

I didn't say anything about politics or trans.

In what way is the target demo different?

 

[Fury]

I'm definitely more interested in better quality writing and mechanics than I would be in just trying to remake the initial trilogy with UE5.
For all I care It could be wall to wall "rebellion of the purple haired, gender shifting, alien furries", if they can manage to make the writing above average, the art design and detail impressive and the gameplay mechanics top priority.

They need to write conversations more naturally and fix looping idles in conversation.

That and let me try to sex the weird aliens

 

[Ruprecht]

They need to write conversations more naturally and fix looping idles in conversation.

That and let me try to sex the weird aliens

Good interactive dialogue is especially hard to do, but I don't think I'm setting my standards too high.
If it reaches cheesy '60s TV scifi levels of entertaining, but with good gameplay mechanics, I'd be happy.

 

[Fury]

Good interactive dialogue is especially hard to do, but I don't think I'm setting my standards too high.
If it reaches cheesy '60s TV scifi levels of entertaining, but with better gameplay, I'd be happy.

Well at least the looping idles can be fixed. Watching some fucker raise and lower a tablet thing ten times per conversation was quite annoying

 

[Hog-train]

Funny thing, people who just play the game will see this once. People upset about a game they won't play will see this much more as they watch the clips and their favorite similarly minded streamers.

Interestingly, I don't see people complaining that everybody in the game can be a romantic interest for any gender or race. That's dumb.

DA:I did this much better. Some characters were straight, some were gay and some were bi. One was even easier or harder to romance based on what race you were. That's much better.

If you want your game to be inclusive, include people being something besides pansexual and having preferences.

I don't really care about the character choices. It's the juvenile writing. It literally sounds like a high school writing exercise by a nonbinary student. It's so stupid and cringe.

There was another scene where a character starts doing push-ups to apologize for misgendering.

Hey let's take a well established franchise and fill it with modern politics to make it unrecognizable. And do it with horrible and juvenile writing.

 

[Fury]

I don't really care about the character choices. It's the juvenile writing. It literally sounds like a high school writing exercise by a nonbinary student. It's so stupid and cringe.

There was another scene where a character starts doing push-ups to apologize for misgendering.

Hey let's take a well established franchise and fill it with modern politics to make it unrecognizable. And do it with horrible and juvenile writing.

I missed the part where the game is "filled" with modern politics and unrecognizable. But hey, I only have played it a fair bit, I must be wrong.

So far there was Solas, Varric, at least one dragon, dark spawn, venatori, people complaining about shit happening to the sky, deep stalkers, nugs, morrigan, Harding... Most of the dialogue has been about who to kill and why, what this faction needs.

Any of this sound like a Dragon Age game?