Multiplat Dragon Age: The Veilguard

[Zazen]

Did you play DAI? I'm really interested to see what they do with the Solis story line since I thought that was great in DAI.

No I haven't. If I enjoy this I may go back and play it but with all the games coming out in 2025 I don't know if I'll have time.

 

[deadshot138]

The coverage on this game is so schizophrenic. It's a record breaking 10/10 AND a massive flop that the developer has already abandoned at the same time, apparently.

It's 10/10 if you align with the gender bullshit

 

[Zazen]

It's 10/10 if you align with the gender bullshit

To be fair streamers are going out of their way to choose all the nonbinary options. Even in the Asmongold clip he's kind of hamming it up for the audience. He knows he could have pressed the back button or chose the other four options. I think the mistake they made is that the sliders in character creation barely affect your character. Sure, you can have the trans stuff I don't mind but they should have allowed for more diversity of body types. I mean come on half of America is fat as fuck lol. Also, no big tit options are kind of lame. Oh well, I play straight male characters whenever I have a choice.

There needs to be some middle ground between the West and East. I do think games from countries like China and Korea are a bit absurd in that every female looks exactly the same with big breasts and thin body but the West has taken it a bit too far to exclude them

 

[WhiteMousse]

He's not lying, but he is taking the piss. Everything from the costume, the "grab a seat" to the, "this is purely educational, nothing negative to say about dragonage" followed immediately by, "I want to apologise to my regular viewers, as I know you prefer it when I make videos about games that are actually good and interesting, or at least have some redeeming qualities, rather than Dragon Age Veilguard".
Then on with, "We need to analyse why the writing has reached such an unanticipated level of catastrophic failure", and then basically going on to say that the writers have no skills what so ever and blames a complete lack of experience with actual human interaction and the belief that twitter interactions are equivalent to real human dialogue ("we can learn from this, so the next generation of writers aren't emotionally and developmentally stunted").
Taking the piss (including with his dialogue edits), but his criticism of why it's so awful, and basic techniques that could have made it better, are still on point.

This is my thought as well. His points are valid, irrefutable. But saying "this isn't meant to be negative" and then dunking on the writers and stating they have no skills or creative talent is contradictory.

I mean we don't know if the writers are creative or not. The writING is really bad but we don't know how rigid the guidelines were for them. Judging from what I've seen it's likely they had some awful restraints.

 

[WhiteMousse]

No I haven't. If I enjoy this I may go back and play it but with all the games coming out in 2025 I don't know if I'll have time.

Even if you don't enjoy Veilguard you should give DAI a chance. DAO is the best but it's a bit notorious for being both difficult to get to run properly, and being dated in its graphics. But both those issues can be addressed if you're playing PC and the gameplay is rock solid. In fact I'd say because of the combat you really need to play DAO on PC. Basically BGIII is the successor to DAO. If you fancy character interaction you'll find it's the most diverse except for KOTOR. What you do and say really matters, and most of the characters play crucial roles in combat.

And as much as I criticize Dragon Age II it really is a very good game. The characters are fantastic, the story is great and while there are problems with it being a little too linear in my opinion it's worth a play if you find you like the franchise.

 

[Fury]

I must be missing all the gender bullshit. So far there was a pronoun choice in the character creator and a mirror with 6 options.

As I'm not using a trans character, I looked at my scars in the mirror.

I don't see an option to pick up the mirror again.

Is this a lot of outrage about 10 minutes of a 40 hour game?

 

[Ruprecht]

I get where you're coming from, but the sad fact is when politics infest entertainment to the point the politics become more important than the entertainment it becomes propaganda.

There certainly is politics in quality games as far back as Metal Gear Solid, and as recently as Baldur's Gate 3... but Veilguard and Sweet Baby Inc influenced games are on the other side of the paradyme.

The question is ballance, and if it can be subtle at best, maybe balanced... but then it becomes overbearing to the point you're receiving a lecture in a game you paid damn good money to play.

And I believe games in Australia are a shitload, right?

I don't consider political messaging inherently a negative. I mean I love Cold War Scifi, and plenty that was far from subtle with it's political messaging.
I even enjoy FPS games (modern or WWII) that are full of corny flag waving Americana, and that doesn't exactly align with my personal tastes or politics, although my enjoyment there is more about the game mechanics than any narrative.

Sure, if it's overly preachy that's going to detract from my enjoyment, but even though you get the occasional JRPGS that can have wall-of-text exposition, it's not exactly the norm for gaming to have "Atlas Shrugged" style 33899 word political monologues.

I wouldn't get a game like Dustborn, because the characters, world building and gameplay don't appeal to me. Presumably I'm not their target audience. It looks like it was aimed at young Americans, raised on a consumer diet of Marvel Movies and Glee. I guess it's good that scifi gaming is now big enough to have a diversity of niche products.
"Top surgery" scars and no arse in custom character creators in a AAA fantasy RPG, or gender pronouns for robots in hero shooters, just has me laughing at the ridiculousness of the zeitgeist.

Personally I think "Culture War signalling" is a non-issue compared to things about current gaming that actually annoy me, like personal data mining, pay to win micro-transactions, strictly "live service" games or games that have a "full release" in less than a beta state and then take years to finish (I still haven't played Cyberpunk 2077, despite the VR mods and DLC supposedly almost shaping up to the pre-launch hype, and open world cyberpunk action adventure being absolutely my style of game).

The odd thing about Veilguard is that, even selecting independent reviewers that ignore the American culture war, the opinions are still starkly contrasting.
Including about my main concern of whether Bioware has made any sort of comeback.

I think games are cheap personally, but then I remember buying the boxed game of Elite in 1987 (think I've still got it somewhere) and it costing me $60AUD back then.
As a point of reference, COD Black Ops 6 is $110 AUD and the mean hourly wage here is now $39.50 AUD.

 

[method115]

I must be missing all the gender bullshit. So far there was a pronoun choice in the character creator and a mirror with 6 options.

As I'm not using a trans character, I looked at my scars in the mirror.

I don't see an option to pick up the mirror again.

Is this a lot of outrage about 10 minutes of a 40 hour game?

I haven't played the game so I don't know either way. I did suspect there might be people purposely looking for this stuff to make youtube outrage content.

 

[Fury]

I haven't played the game so I don't know either way. I did suspect there might be people purposely looking for this stuff to make youtube outrage content.

Well, I understand them. It's how they make money.

The other people, like the ones here, not sure what they get out of it. But I spend my life not morally outraged in either direction.

Also, so far I'm enjoying the game. Dual wielding rogue with amazing hair

 

[Ruprecht]

This is my thought as well. His points are valid, irrefutable. But saying "this isn't meant to be negative" and then dunking on the writers and stating they have no skills or creative talent is contradictory.

I mean we don't know if the writers are creative or not. The writING is really bad but we don't know how rigid the guidelines were for them. Judging from what I've seen it's likely they had some awful restraints.

His points about some of the awful writing shown in clips are absolutely valid, but the extent to which he is taking the piss is hard to gauge without having actually played the game and with all the starkly contrasting reviews.
I mean even when he says, "I know you prefer it when I make videos about games that are actually good and interesting" I think he's probably taking the piss.
His most popular videos by an order of magnitude are the ones sledging games that feature some sort of American Culture War controversy. He even did a video on his fossicking for fossils hobby framed as a "touch grass" commentary on this game.

 

[Deleted member 592570]

Well, I understand them. It's how they make money.

The other people, like the ones here, not sure what they get out of it. But I spend my life not morally outraged in either direction.

Also, so far I'm enjoying the game. Dual wielding rogue with amazing hair

It's interesting to see how people in their 20s view this stuff because you sort of came into the discussion half way through.

Literally this whole topic wasn't a thing until like 10 years ago when the left made it a thing.

Now the left pretends whining about politics and inclusion in gaming is some right wing thing. It all started with lefties crying that games weren't 'inclusive' enough.

 

[Deleted member 592570]

To be fair streamers are going out of their way to choose all the nonbinary options. Even in the Asmongold clip he's kind of hamming it up for the audience. He knows he could have pressed the back button or chose the other four options. I think the mistake they made is that the sliders in character creation barely affect your character. Sure, you can have the trans stuff I don't mind but they should have allowed for more diversity of body types. I mean come on half of America is fat as fuck lol. Also, no big tit options are kind of lame.

That's what so stupid about the whole 'body positivity' thing. They are the first to shame fit women for being too 'skinny' or well endowed women for acting like sex objects. They're only actually 'body positive' about big fatsos with small tits and ugly faces like them.

And god forbid as a man you find a woman under 200lbs attractive. Apparently that makes you some kind of creep now.

 

[Fury]

It's interesting to see how people in their 20s view this stuff because you sort of came into the discussion half way through.

Literally this whole topic wasn't a thing until like 10 years ago when the left made it a thing.

Now the left pretends whining about politics and inclusion in gaming is some right wing thing. It all started with lefties crying that games weren't 'inclusive' enough.

Well, I'm certainly not in my 20's. I clicked on a thread about a game, I incorrectly assumed the culture war stuff would be in the culture war thread.

 

[Nizam al-Mulk]

I must be missing all the gender bullshit. So far there was a pronoun choice in the character creator and a mirror with 6 options.

As I'm not using a trans character, I looked at my scars in the mirror.

I don't see an option to pick up the mirror again.

Is this a lot of outrage about 10 minutes of a 40 hour game?

10 minutes of pro Bush preaching would get a game mocked out of the universe, or 10 minutes of Ayn Rand praise in a mainstream franchised game that is not about that.

 

[Ruprecht]

10 minutes of pro Bush preaching would get a game mocked out of the universe, or 10 minutes of Ayn Rand praise in a mainstream franchised game that is not about that.

Bioshock was pretty heavy handed taking the piss out of Libertarianism/ Rand's "Objectivism", which was also very topical in 2007, and everyone thought it kicked arse.
Because it was well done.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Bioshock was pretty heavy handed taking the piss out of Libertarianism/ Rand's "Objectivism", which was also very topical in 2007, and everyone thought it kicked arse.
Because it was well done.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Rand's philosophy was not portrayed in a positive light, as it was the motivations of the antagonist/s... and the setting 'Rapture'... a destroyed underwater city with inhuman experiments...was the result.

I've only played about 3/4ths of it when it was released so my memory may be flawed.

 

[WhiteMousse]

I must be missing all the gender bullshit. So far there was a pronoun choice in the character creator and a mirror with 6 options.

As I'm not using a trans character, I looked at my scars in the mirror.

I don't see an option to pick up the mirror again.

Is this a lot of outrage about 10 minutes of a 40 hour game?

Most people's issues come from the bad writing, not necessary the political stuff. As has already been mentioned by some, while there are rage-baiters looking for clicks, the majority of the complaints stem from the fact that the game is just poorly written to a point where it's seriously distracting. I'm not trying to dogpile DAV because it sounds like the gameplay is turning out to be okay from what I hear. But the fact is most people wouldn't care about a character identifying as non-binary if the game and character were well done. The heavy-handed political preaching accentuates the issue, and the problem is especially pronounced for fans of the series because it's ridiculously easy to imagine how the story and writing could have been much better. And that's because this kind of thing has been done better before.

2011. One of the best characters in the franchise. Bi.


And nobody cared about that because the character is amazing. He's nuanced, very chill (until a certain something happens and that's when you start to get to know him). When you meet him he is very guarded about telling you about his past. He doesn't walk up to you and tell you about why it's so important to respect him or say "Hey I'm fucking gay, pull a barv". He doesn't sound like he was written by someone who's never had a relationship in their life, platonic or otherwise. One of the best acting performances by one of the best voice actors in the industry, and given a compelling arc. Badass theme song that is sweet and sad. Doesn't whine and complain to you about his personal life; it's something you have to unveil bit by bit. Will leave if you go down a moral thread to a threshold he's unwilling to cross. At one point he makes an exceedingly subtle flirtatious remark to you and you can lean into it or politely move on. Or you can be a dick to him. Anders is also a great character- also bi. He's also completely different from Fenris. He's loud, obnoxious and quite frankly crucially dishonest although he really cares about you. He hits on you blatantly, gets moody if you turn him down, and is elusive about his motives.

 

[Ruprecht]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Rand's philosophy was not portrayed in a positive light, as it was the motivations of the antagonist/s... and the setting 'Rapture'... a destroyed underwater city with inhuman experiments...was the result.

I've only played about 3/4ths of it when it was released so my memory may be flawed.

Yeah, that's why I said it was taking the piss out of Libertarianism/"Objectivism".
The Dystopian criticism was far from subtle. Andrew Ryan was basically a critique of John Galt. The political exposition was worked into the worldbuilding and character design brilliantly though.

 

[Blayt7hh]

A narrative driven, fantasy action-rpg was never going to be targeting me as it's audience, but I was interested in whether Mass Effect had any chance of a decent revival.
Doesn't look like it. The dialogue I've seen is like some sort of Disney+, coming of age, "Young Adult" fiction. I had to skip through the review out of second hand embarrassment for both the voice actors and the writers.
Hard to tell what the gameplay feels like, although the "puzzles" appear to be reminiscent of coloured keys and "rotate the statues" from '90s gaming.
Doesn't look like they've pulled off meaningful dialogue options either, and their "solution" to bad facial animations seems to be simply not having any.
Art direction looked more Disney Princess than Pixar to me, reminded me of The Black Cauldron animated movie.

That young adult fiction comment really put the finger on something that had been bothering me about the game that I couldn’t quite put my finger on.

 

[Ruprecht]

That young adult fiction comment really put the finger on something that had been bothering me about the game that I couldn’t quite put my finger on.

Yeah, I haven't played it so I'm not sure how representative the clips in reviews are.
Especially given the contrast in opinions.
They certainly give the appearance that despite the "M" rating, it's been dumbed down for a younger audience. The shift in art style underlining that.